AS ANOTHER YEAR'S SUMMER DRAWS TO A CLOSE, it becomes more apparent to me that things have changed in our world and unless we adapt, we are only going to suffer more collectively because of it. This year's LDRS had all the right ingredients ... if you happen to be a lizard.

Right off the bat, let me extend my praises to the Rocketry Organization of California, this year's LDRS host.  These individuals worked tirelessly to pull off a very successful event, even after being targeted by fate with attempts to inflict delays and personal damage.  Every attendee has spoken highly of the effort expended by ROC to make this a truly great launch.

But there were elements in play at LDRS this year that were not within the control of the hosts, elements that often were not within the control of any warm-bodied individual, namely: the weather, the environment, the markets, the economy.

Global warming is a frequently-used term and whether you are conditioned to tune it out as an over-abused buzz word or if you believe the situation is real and deserves more attention, the fact of the matter is that we are all exposed to extremes in the environment that are affecting the weather around us.

For the first time in my memory, warning notices on the official LDRS web site alerted possible attendees that the Bureau of Land Management would be on-site issuing citations for burn-ban violations with the added caveat, "even making arrests if necessary."  These are indeed treacherous times for our natural habitat, and the environmental regulatory agencies are obviously playing for keeps.

All across America, every day, millions and millions are still reeling from the high cost of gasoline this past summer. That high cost takes its toll on everyone daily as the price of consumer goods slowly creep upward to try and absorb the gasoline price increases. Between paying at the pump and paying even more at the register, America is taking a hit from all sides, with the result being even less money left over at the end of the day for personal pursuits of happiness.

Giant dust cloud covering this year's LDRS launch site. Photo: D. Griffith.

Fortunately for lizards, they aren't affected by the high cost of gasoline, the ever-oppressive heat or the ever-changing regulatory environment, but unfortunately we humans are.  Even though the people of ROC did an outstanding job hosting this year's event, and they should be commended for the job they did, it was the things beyond their control that could stand consideration for future Tripoli events.

Since the inception of LDRS, the emphasis has been around the one national launch held each year by the Tripoli Rocketry Association, usually at the height of summer, allowing participants from all over the country to make the trek during peak vacation time. One of the unfortunate things about holding a launch at this time of year is that the peak of summer usually also means the peak of annual high temperatures.

Couple the high heat with the high cost of gasoline, and you have the perfect recipe for lower turnouts and less money to spend at the event, the rockets you build to fly there and the motors you would use to get them up. This year's event was a good example: record heat in the Nevada desert combined with a lower than expected turnout resulted in less flights, less products purchased from attending vendors and a lower overall performance than events held in the past. By Saturday morning, some vendors were running 25% off of everything specials. Certainly the regulatory environment was a considering factor in that result, but perhaps it's simply time for a change.

Lower participation means lower sales. Lower sales means less vendors. Lower sales and less vendors means bad news for the manufacturers, and combined with the regulatory environment, the high costs of fuel, and other equally important considerations, it all spells lower membership numbers for the national organizations. It's time to change directions, before we lose another vendor, before we lose another manufacturer, before we lose another member to considerations that we can't control. It's time to grow this hobby by changing what we can control.

The 2008 LDRS event will be held in Argonia, Kansas, hosted by the Kloudbusters. This will be the fifth time the Kloudbusters have hosted the event. Anyone who has been to Argonia will tell you that it can be as hot as Jean Dry Lake, but the important difference here is the time of year it is scheduled to be held: over the Labor Day Weekend. This year's A.I.R.Fest at Argonia recorded a weather report on Saturday of 86 degrees and sunny — hot, but not as hot as it would be if held in July when LDRS has traditionally been held. Holding the LDRS event over the Labor Day weekend opens the entire summer calendar up to finding some shade and a cooler environment. 

But more importantly, holding the LDRS event over the Labor Day weekend gives Tripoli the opportunity to makes some important structural, operational and logistical changes to their "national launch" focus. With LDRS scheduled to be held on Labor Day, this is the perfect time for Tripoli to expand their "national launch" structure to include several national launches that move around to various regional areas, expanding the opportunity that more participants are likely to participate in several events as opposed to everyone trying to make it to the one major event given the cost of gasoline and other financial factors.

Face it, if you can get a new member to an LDRS, chances are they will become a long-term participant, as the event seems to solidify the hobby to new members. Why not spread that excitement to two or three locations, giving the opportunity to solidify that many more new members and grow this hobby? There are prefectures all across the nation who hold large regional events, now is the time for TRA to partner with them such as they are with the Kloudbuster's 2008 A.I.R.Fest event, which will be held in conjunction with LDRS in 2008. 

In the past, TRA has depended upon the submission of written requests by groups offering to host the next year's LDRS event, and often times only one solitary group submission was available to be reviewed and accepted by the board.  By partnering with established regional events, there is no longer a need to depend on finding a receptive group to submit a request offering to sponsor the next year's event.

Since LDRS 2008 is already on the books for Labor Day next year, it should behoove Tripoli to add at least two other events to their national calendar. The Florida Winternationals is an obvious choice since next year it falls in the month of February, eight months prior to LDRS' 2008 date. This opens up another nationally-sanctioned, regionally-operated launch that could be held around Memorial Day 2008. I immediately think of the folks at MDRA, or the folks in Washington/Oregon or perhaps even another Black Rock event.

This concept isn't new, but its timing is right. It's not even new to the rocketry community, as the concept has been championed before. Perhaps the timing wasn't right then, but it's better now. It's worked for the drag racing community for years, it works for college basketball every March, and it could work for hobby rocketry as well. Let's make the environment work with us instead of against us, and leave the lizards to find their own futures, perhaps participating in GEICO commercials but not at our launches.

Darrell D. Mobley is the editor of Rocketry Planet. You may reach him by email at This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it . If you would like to comment publicly, post your response below.

09-03-2007 05:05 PM  #1
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 49	Just TRA? Why are you singling out just TRA as responsible for holding large national launches? Or do you think only TRA prefectures are capable of holding a large regional HP launch?

09-03-2007 06:08 PM  #2
final_strike New Member   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1	LDRS I for one would welcome a fall LDRS in a north east state like Pennsylvania

09-03-2007 06:20 PM  #3
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Quote: Why are you singling out just TRA as responsible for holding large national launches? Or do you think only TRA prefectures are capable of holding a large regional HP launch? I "single out" TRA because I am addressing LDRS specifically, and TRA's one-annual-national-launch approach.

09-03-2007 06:48 PM  #4
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 49	Sorry, I still am confused. Florida Winter Nat and MDRA launches, as well as other regional launches regularly occur, are well run and well attended. What would be added by TRA designating them a sanctioned event (other than the TRA tax)? Again Darrell, I am not being argumentative, I just don't get what you would be trying to accomplish.

09-03-2007 07:32 PM  #5
jimmyc-rocket Certified Level Two   Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 67	Quote: Sorry, I still am confused. Florida Winter Nat and MDRA launches, as well as other regional launches regularly occur, are well run and well attended. What would be added by TRA designating them a sanctioned event (other than the TRA tax)? Again Darrell, I am not being argumentative, I just don't get what you would be trying to accomplish. I think I understand what Darrell is saying as in these times where we are trying to expand membership as well as promote the hobby we now need more larger launches (like LDRS) in more areas to make it more accessible to everyone in every part of the country. The theory being most people cannot afford to travel great distances then have money to support the vendors that support our hobby. It is like this, I have to spend most of my money just to get to the launch and now I cannot afford to buy that new product the manufacturers are presenting and the vendors are selling. So the vendors cannot afford to stay in business and then the manufacturer cannot stay in business so then we have nowhere to get the items we need to build and fly rockets, so the hobby suffers, then we loose members and the hole hobby goes down the tubes. I have large launches to attend here on the EAST coast with MDRA (Maryland) and NERRF (New York state) while these are not sanctioned by TRIPOLI they are great launches to attend. They are not LDRS either but they are close enough to attend and they are on great fields. Last May MDRA held its Red Glare launch and had a 4 rocket O motor drag race to entertain the crowd and there was a crowd. I attended NERRF 3 and there was a large crowd there also. There where plenty of vendors and plenty of rockets flown at both events. Is this the simple version of what you are saying Darrell?

09-03-2007 07:47 PM  #6
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 49	Quote: I think I understand what Darrell is saying as in these times where we are trying to expand membership as well as promote the hobby we now need more larger launches (like LDRS) in more areas to make it more accessible to everyone in every part of the country. The theory being most people cannot afford to travel great distances then have money to support the vendors that support our hobby. It is like this, I have to spend most of my money just to get to the launch and now I cannot afford to buy that new product the manufacturers are presenting and the vendors are selling. So the vendors cannot afford to stay in business and then the manufacturer cannot stay in business so then we have nowhere to get the items we need to build and fly rockets, so the hobby suffers, then we loose members and the hole hobby goes down the tubes. I have large launches to attend here on the EAST coast with MDRA (Maryland) and NERRF (New York state) while these are not sanctioned by TRIPOLI they are great launches to attend. They are not LDRS either but they are close enough to attend and they are on great fields. Last May MDRA held its Red Glare launch and had a 4 rocket O motor drag race to entertain the crowd and there was a crowd. I attended NERRF 3 and there was a large crowd there also. There where plenty of vendors and plenty of rockets flown at both events. Is this the simple version of what you are saying Darrell? I got that and agree. But we already have WinterNats, Red Glare, NERFF, NYPOWER etc on the east that happen regularly. What are we proposing? More than these? Make them bigger? Hang sanctioned by TRA/NAR/Whoever on them?

09-03-2007 07:51 PM  #7
Chuck_Rudy Banned   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 198	What are the fees imposed by TRA? And by noting the new events as "national" events would they be subject to the same baggage? Thus making for a small pool of events willing to throw away their hard earned money for new launch equipment to pay for travel expenses of who knows who? Yes LDRS as it is presently is dysfunctional. But I think many more answers lie behind the scenes. Personally holding an event while my 16 year old son is in school says "we don't want you or your kid, stay away". So we will. Chuck

09-03-2007 07:54 PM  #8
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Quote: Again Darrell, I am not being argumentative, I just don't get what you would be trying to accomplish. Imagine there only being one major NASCAR race per year. Quote: Personally holding an event while my 16 year old son is in school says "we don't want you or your kid, stay away". So we will. That is the result of only having one prefecture submit a proposal to host the event. With no other options to choose from, what choice were they left with? Now you can start to see one of the underlying problems...

09-03-2007 08:11 PM  #9
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 49	Quote: Imagine there only being one major NASCAR race per year. Maybe the problem is that LDRS isn't the only NASCAR race. There are ALOT of nice regional launches held now (previous posts listed a few on the east), with as many flights and people of equal stature to LDRS. What is the draw of LDRS other than having the privilege of paying ridiculous registration fees?

09-03-2007 08:23 PM  #10
Chuck_Rudy Banned   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 198	Quote: Maybe the problem is that LDRS isn't the only NASCAR race. There are ALOT of nice regional launches held now (previous posts listed a few on the east), with as many flights and people of equal stature to LDRS. What is the draw of LDRS other than having the privilege of paying ridiculous registration fees? Now please enlighten me what all those ridiculous registration fee payments go for? National advertising? Television coverage? Importing the press? The priviledge to 'hold' the National High Power Launch? Would those same "perks" be levied on the Regional High Power Launches? If so, I see a non starter. And does BALLS pay the same fees to be the National Research Event? Chuck

09-03-2007 08:33 PM  #11
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Quote: Maybe the problem is that LDRS isn't the only NASCAR race. There are ALOT of nice regional launches held now (previous posts listed a few on the east), with as many flights and people of equal stature to LDRS. What is the draw of LDRS other than having the privilege of paying ridiculous registration fees? LDRS is the only national launch conducted by the Tripoli Rocketry Association for commercial motors.

09-03-2007 09:33 PM  #12
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 577	Once again I am going to side with Darrell on this one. I will however give more copelling reasons. I am smarter Regional access simply increase the number of access points. The main point he made, restated, is certain local weather conditions are incompatible with some people. Ie Californians in S Houston in August ala NARAM. I have posted a real solution to rmr many moons ago. Just Jerry

09-03-2007 10:26 PM  #13
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Quote: I got that and agree. But we already have WinterNats, Red Glare, NERFF, NYPOWER etc on the east that happen regularly. What are we proposing? More than these? Make them bigger? Hang sanctioned by TRA/NAR/Whoever on them? Think with me outside of the box for a moment. Forget about the high fees, etc. associated with LDRS that has traditionally been the case up until now. What if we could take those large regional events and turn them into SUPER-regional events? With TRA assisting with promotion to bring in the national media, assisting the local clubs with membership drives to help grow your local scene. Not just "hang" the TRA sanction on them, but really bring a national presence into the regional market. No one is discounting that there aren't problems with the current arrangement, but this is our opportunity to dream up NEW and IMPROVED circumstances that we would like to see happen. Guys, anyone can complain about the current way of doing things, dream with me and discuss new ways to make the status quo better. If we could do it any way we wanted to, what would that look like? Dare to dream big dreams! I would like to see a manufacturer's midway just like the large automobile racing events enjoy with more than just rocketry vendors and manufacturers participating. Bring in the IEEE folks with information on TARC, bring in the NASA SLI/USLI program folks, bring our some aeronautical schools. Bring in the Civilian Air Patrol, the National Guard, the Boy and Cub Scouts, make it a real circus of engineering, rocketry, family, fun! I'm just dreaming out loud here. Invite high profile people who are actively pursuing the private space travel race, Burt Rutan, John Cormack, Elon Musk. Why can't we have an X Prize Cup-style event on a super-regional basis? What about, shudder the thought, the NAR and TRA working together to jointly sponsor the super-regionals? The bottom line is this: What we are currently doing is not working. We are shrinking as a hobby in the terms of number of users. You ask: "There are ALOT of nice regional launches held now (previous posts listed a few on the east), with as many flights and people of equal stature to LDRS. What is the draw of LDRS other than having the privilege of paying ridiculous registration fees?" If we want to continue to see the hobby shrink in participants, we can keep doing just as we are doing. If we want to grow the hobby, we can do something different. If growing the hobby means that I have to pay higher registrations fees at one super-regional launch in my area, then sign me up. I can't make all of the proposed super-regional events, but I can make one, so as long as the fees aren't higher than a normal LDRS, I don't understand what the problem is. But the choice is ours: keep doing the same thing and getting the same results or change. I am reminded of a saying from a former employer: "You always get what you've always got because you always do what you've always done." We have the power to change that. Will we?

09-03-2007 11:58 PM  #14
StuBarrett Certified Level Eleven   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 87	Been theree, done that This has been discussed at length by the Tripoli BOD at meetings open to the membership. The mechanics are not that hard to understand. - Anyone can host a large Tripoli sanctioned launch. Many Prefectures do. - The Tripoli bylaws demand an annual members meeting. Traditionally this is done at LDRS in order to have a large turn-out. The requirement of a members meeting complicates the logistics of holding an LDRS. - Anyone can host an LDRS if they can win the 'bid'. Few bidders can manage the logistics of such an endeavor so bids are few. - Many folks would like to have a non-summer LDRS. All it takes is a bid. Potential non-summer bidders have done market analysis and have decided that the loss of attendance at a non-summer launch is too high. hopefully this may change. So the question is; what is the difference between large regional Tripoli sanctioned launches (which already exist) and this proposal? Magic TRA dust that gets sprinkled on the organizers? Guest BOD appearances (like Star Trek conventions)? We all share the desire to have larger, bigger, more plentiful launches. However, the realization of that desire rests on the ability of Prefectures to handle the expenses, logistics, venue, etc. Not on the simplistic LDRS 'label'. Stu

09-04-2007 10:14 AM  #15
Rich Pitzeruse Certified Frat Boy   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 100	Quote: What are the fees imposed by TRA? The last I knew....and that was a few years ago.....it costs the hosting club $1500 AND $20 per flyer, payable to Tripoli.

09-04-2007 10:17 AM  #16
StuBarrett Certified Level Eleven   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 87	Quote: What if we could take those large regional events and turn them into SUPER-regional events? With TRA assisting with promotion to bring in the national media, assisting the local clubs with membership drives to help grow your local scene. Not just "hang" the TRA sanction on them, but really bring a national presence into the regional market. Darrell, I see that we had a race condition and while I was composing my post, you sent this one... We agree on this, the 'solution' is to not just "Not just "hang" the TRA sanction on them". There are good marketing ideas that you have; I'm sure that there are others. Unfortunately the bottom line is $. Now the Prefectures/Sections operate the launches like a small business. Why? Because they have too; money does not grow on trees. I can see that, like a professional sports business (e.g. NFL), the national organizations (i.e. Tripoli, NAR) could provide some marketing $'s to help out the local clubs/teams. I know the Tripoli BOD has discussed different ways to financially assist LDRS bidders. Unfortunately, we are as a hobby, pretty much focused on the lawsuit. Not just financially, but also mentally. My belief is that when/if we win the lawsuit, there will be a re-birth of the hobby where ideas such as this will be realizable. Maybe we could purchase land for launch sites? A little bit of history... At one time there was a Tripoli launch system that was used for LDRS. It was shipped to the different sites each year. It was a good example of how the national organization could subsidize the launch organizer's infrastructure needs. Over the years, the system broke down, was obsolete and in the end, that mechanism died.

09-04-2007 11:50 AM  #17
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Quote: The last I knew....and that was a few years ago.....it costs the hosting club $1500 AND $20 per flyer, payable to Tripoli. Perhaps that is because Tripoli pays the expenses of all BOD members to attend because of the annual meeting. It wouldn't be a necessity at super-regionals, so it should help eliminate such a high cost. The reality is that higher participation and a fresh influx of new members can reduce those costs across the board. How much do you think it would cost per flier if we continue to have an ongoing reduction in membership? It's our decision, we can keep doing things the old way — since they are working so well — or we can decide to try something new.

09-04-2007 12:15 PM  #18
TRASEC New Member   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 8	Bylaws state annual meeting held at LDRS I agree that there are great launches at many sites throughout the year. I would love to take advantage of going to other launches during months of more moderate temperatures. I made a suggestion that the annual meeting rotate between LDRS one year and one of the great regional events the next year. This would possibly bring focus to launch events like Airfest, ROC Stock, Florida Winter Nationals, to name a few. I was reminded that the TRA by-laws stipulate that the annual membership meeting be held at LDRS. I agree that we should examine things like this. I feel that both sides of the argument have some merit and I doubt there will be an answer that makes everyone happy. After 26 years, the reasoning "that's the way it's always been" is worthy of review. This is only my opinion, not the opinion of the entire TRA BoD. Bob Schoner TRA pays some of the expenses of board members who ask for it. This year they reimbursed $500 to each board member to attend. Derek Deville flew out from Miami for the Wednesday meeting and had to go back for business. He flew out again on Saturday to be at the banquet. Eric Gates and Robin Meredith did not get any compensation from TRA. Last year Pat did not accept any reimbursement for LDRS in Amarillo. The fee has varied from $250 for the Geneseo LDRS to $500 for LDRS 26. I think that's a reletively small compensation for working on the board for many hours a year. It's great to have, but it doesn't come close to paying for airfare, meals and lodging from a Tuesday through Monday launch on the other side of the country. One more thing to note is that Tripoli will NEVER, squeeze an LDRS host for money that they don't have. One of the few perks for a hosting club or clubs is to build up some cash reserves. If the club is at risk of losing money, TRA will waive some or all of the fees. The LDRS fees were put in place before my time on the board. In hindsight, they were about the only thing that kept us from going broke a few years back. There is a BoD discussion about the LDRS fees every year months before LDRS. In my opinion I think it is possible that these fees could be lowered or eliminated in the future based on membership growth and reduced insurance rates. Bob schoner

09-04-2007 01:20 PM  #19
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 577	Quote: Perhaps that is because Tripoli pays the expenses of all BOD members to attend because of the annual meeting. It is my understanding that is something NAR does NOT do. Just Jerry Quote: One more thing to note is that Tripoli will NEVER, squeeze an LDRS host for money that they don't have. Bob schoner At LDRS-21 Lucerne TRA and the club failed to seek and obtain in advance a BLM permit for the activity. BLM came out and fined the promoters, the vendors and who knows who else. Tripoli's response? Issue a TAX on vendors to cover the fines as well as pay the fines they were individually issued for not pre-paying the BLM mandated $50 vendor fee. Just Jerry

09-04-2007 01:33 PM  #20
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Bob, thank you very much for your input. As usual, your words have great value and are very appreciated. I never read one of your posts where I don't walk away feeling that we are indeed fortunate to have someone of your caliber on the board. It is nice to know that the spirit of my editoral was received in its intent. You are right that we need to look at the ways things are done, and often that means just as you say: challenging the statement that we have always done things a certain way. No matter what pursuit we chase in life, the direction of the future will always be determined by vision and leadership. As participants, we have the ability to define what the vision and leadership will be, and what role we will play in determining the path we take. We are in control, whether we think we are or not, of those things that are within our control. Often we just have to have the courage to try. Quote: Perhaps that is because Tripoli pays the expenses of all BOD members to attend because of the annual meeting. Folks, this should have been a question and not posed as a statement as I really didn't know the answer.

09-04-2007 03:23 PM  #21
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 49	Quote: What if we could take those large regional events and turn them into SUPER-regional events? With TRA assisting with promotion to bring in the national media, assisting the local clubs with membership drives to help grow your local scene. Not just "hang" the TRA sanction on them, but really bring a national presence into the regional market. Darryl, I like your vision, but I would be happy if TRA would grow capability to perform its basic mission like efficiently certifying motors and keeping its website up to date. The point I am making is what you described could only be done extra-TRA/NAR by others that share your vision and have the contacts, time and organization skills to pull this off. Then TRA/NAR could jump on and provide some leverage to the effort. Something close to what you described can be piloted at one of the regional launches but someone has to step up and agree to make the contacts with the groups you mention to see if there is any interest. Are you up to it? --john

09-04-2007 03:26 PM  #22
k3td Earth-bound misfit   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 64	BOD Quote: Last year Pat did not accept any reimbursement for LDRS in Amarillo. The fee has varied from $250 for the Geneseo LDRS to $500 for LDRS 26. I think that's a reletively small compensation for working on the board for many hours a year. It's great to have, but it doesn't come close to paying for airfare, meals and lodging from a Tuesday through Monday launch on the other side of the country. Bob schoner We are very, very lucky to have the talented and dedicated individuals who serve as our BOD. Reimbursing them for some travel is the least we can do. They devote much to the cause in time and effort, and we all get the benefits. As Stu mentioned earlier, things will be much brighter when the pesky legal action is behind us. Great discussion - thanks for starting it Darrell! There is always room for improvement in any endeavor.

09-04-2007 04:41 PM  #23
Chuck_Rudy Banned   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 198	Quote: I got that and agree. But we already have WinterNats, Red Glare, NERFF, NYPOWER etc on the east that happen regularly. What are we proposing? More than these? Make them bigger? Hang sanctioned by TRA/NAR/Whoever on them? I notice two of the four here are certified/RS combined events in the northeast. Perhaps therein may lie some of the cure. Attract everyone, not one group for a few days and another group for a couple more. Allowing the younguns to see others pushing something really large into the air get's them going. Educate and wow the youth, they are the future who are discouraged at times......yeah, yeah I know, it's that safety thing......but look at MDRA and tell me it can't be done. Serious vendors should not be charged to attend the event PROVIDING they agree to have some sort of event special which pushes the hobby forward. Smaller vendors agree to be based outside the large vendor area at no charge with the understanding they are expected to contribute in some way, but not pay for space. Parking is free. Who would open themself up to the legalities of charging the public? I see certain regionals growing for a very good reason......and growth becomes exposure. Oh, yeah, and MDRA, NERRF, the WinterNats and NYPOWER don't charge the press to give their event exposure. Another forward thinking and novel idea. Chuck

09-04-2007 06:32 PM  #24
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2170	Quote: Oh, yeah, and MDRA, NERRF, the WinterNats and NYPOWER don't charge the press to give their event exposure. Another forward thinking and novel idea. I would be curious to know what is done regarding the press at other spots around the country. Do other groups charge the press? Do similar sports charge the press?

09-04-2007 07:03 PM  #25
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 49	Quote: I would be curious to know what is done regarding the press at other spots around the country. Do other groups charge the press? Do similar sports charge the press? What is a similar sport? Based on percentage of participation, let's see, in our metro-area which has a population of about a million we have maybe 45 people in HP rocketry, tops. I think we have more curlers (that sport where you sweep the ice in front of the sliding rock...) than that. I'll bet those guys don't charge the press to cover one of their tournaments.

09-04-2007 07:05 PM  #26
sberfield New Member   Joined: May 2007 Posts: 5	I think actively promoting regional launches is great, and having attended LDRS this yer, I can say with no little conviction that 109 degrees is too hot for ANY outdoor activities. However, I also think that having an annual "flagship" launch event is a good thing. One issue I have with the Labor Day date next year is that you end up with LDRS/XPRS/BALLS all cannabalizing each other -- after all how many people can afford to go to all three? As it is, I have to decide every year whether to do XPRS or BALLS -- I always end up at XPRS since I fly commercial and can't afford the time to do both -- even though I would kill to see some of the stuff that flies at BALLS. It doesn't make any sense to me to bunch up major launches like this. A smarter approach would be to coordinate across orgs to spread the big launches aroudn the calendar and country - and to work harder to promote those events to the broader public as a way of interesting new folks in the hobby.

09-05-2007 12:35 AM  #27
SpartaChris Certified Level Two   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 57	Quote: I would be curious to know what is done regarding the press at other spots around the country. Do other groups charge the press? Do similar sports charge the press? Most certainly they do. I'm fairly certain that the NFL charges Sports Illustrated (for example) for reporters at games. It's NFL property that SI is shooting and using in their publications, so SI pays some kind of license fee for the right to use that property in their publication. With rocketry, I think it's a bit different. Rocketry needs the magazine coverage to help promote the greatness of the hobby. Likewise, the magazines need to be able to attend launches without it costing an arm and a leg so they can continue to operate. I won't pretend to know how much the magazines make each year, but I imagine that given the volume of subscribers, it probably isn't much. One thing I think was great about LDRS this past year was the air conditioned tent that was offered. Yes, it was blazing hot, which everyone attending had to have expected. I think the giant AC tent was a great addition, which I would hope to see at future LDRS events. Personally, I like the idea of just having ONE national launch. I think it makes the event that much more special.

09-05-2007 03:59 AM  #28
heada Certifiable   Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 483	Quote: One thing I think was great about LDRS this past year was the air conditioned tent that was offered. Yes, it was blazing hot, which everyone attending had to have expected. I think the giant AC tent was a great addition, which I would hope to see at future LDRS events. I'm fairly sure that the A/C tent was sponsored by Launch Magazine at great expense (how great, I have no idea) I was told that it was a good thing it was there as several people had to be rushed into the tent to cool down due to sunstroke. 109, even if it's a "dry" heat, is way too hot for me. -Aaron

09-05-2007 06:55 AM  #29
Steve_Shannon Will fly beer for rockets   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1682	I think we should keep LDRS a traveling event, unless a central location with perfect weather, no trees, no dust, and free refreshments can be established permanently. I am not familiar with what needs to be fixed about LDRS. I like that it has time-shifted for next year. That allows me to attend. There will always be somebody who cannot attend during any time frame that is selected, so shifting the time frame each year helps, but I realize that because it is the annual meeting it must not be time-shifted too much. Balls is locked in place and that is just fine. It should not travel or time-shift. It works just the way it is. Rather than scheduling more national events, it might be a good experiment to have a traveling TRA national event award, maybe the "Prefects' Cup". This could be something that is awarded annually to an upcoming large event, such as Florida Winter Nationals, Plaster Blaster, Hellfire, or Fire-In-The-Sky. I could see prefects nominating events for this and the body of prefects voting on this. That would give national recognition to these large events. Special events could accompany this designation and traveling award. I don't know if anyone has considered it, but a convention would be nice also. That could be done during the annual Space Cup/X-Prize deal in New Mexico or some other time, such as winter in a convention city.

09-05-2007 08:38 AM  #30
Bexclent Certified Level Two   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 70	I think Darrell's analogy to Nascar is right on the mark - Tripoli should act more as a sanctioning body to launch events instead of holding their own. Tripoli, acting as the sanctioning body, would handle the insurance, legal, and advertising end of the event. The Prefecture or hosting club would handle the field logistics and vendor end of it. This is how Nascar, NHRA, ARCA, etc handle races across the country at hundreds of privately owned race tracks. By putting together a year-long schedule of sanctioned events in advance, not only could the participants plan ahead, but Tripoli would have a steadier cash flow and be able to predict/plan better. This sounds crazy, but perhaps fewer events would work better. Consolidate the many smaller events into a couple of larger ones for increased attendance and exposure. Steve's idea of a convention is great - but I am not sure that the industry is large enough yet. Maybe incorporating a convention into the launch events would work. The vendors could be in an off-site building that is air conditioned (or heated,) and there could be special events, workshops and guest speakers.

09-05-2007 10:44 PM  #31
jmiller no title   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 24	While there's LDRS, there are also a number of well know regional launches, and some could even be considered "mini LDRSs". Maybe the only real problem is that there's not really one place you can look to see what's happenen, where, and when. Sure, LDRS has it's own website, but Balls is on the AHPRA site, Plaster Blaster on it's own site, etc. Maybe a popular rocketry website could provide a "launch calender" for large/regional launchs? (no, I don't mean local club/monthly launches). Ya see an interesting launch in a given timeframe, and you're taken to the website that details the launch (often the club website of the host) Say I'm planning vacation time in March. It might be nice to see (in one place) if there's a big launch at that time. I could plan time off around that, and maybe even fly in for a vacation. Anybody know of a well known rocketry related website that might be able to host such a launch calender? Having the data available might help the regional launches to grow in size, which, in effect, would boost the idea of "mini LDRS" launches, without changes to the TRA (or NAR) stucture. I did find a launch calendar here, but for example, not even Balls is listed (or PlasterBlaster), but a few club launches are. Maybe a "regional lauch calender"?

09-06-2007 08:11 AM  #32
Steve_Shannon Will fly beer for rockets   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1682	Launch calendars Probably every person has a different idea about how they would want a launch calendar formatted. The one here on RP certainly should show Balls, but the only reason it does not is because nobody has added them. That is usually the job of the organizers. Darrell has given us the tools. Darrell, Is it possible for the formatting of the launches on the RP calendar to change with the "national importance" of the launch, so that launches could be categorized as local, statewide, regional, and national and the listings could change in either color, typeface, or font color based on that? Then it would be easy to tell that at a glance. I hope it's not inappropriate, but I added Balls 16 to the launch calendar.

09-06-2007 11:52 AM  #33