Cas2047

Manufactured in: China

heada

Why did it hit someone in the arm and require surgery? I thought one of the safety rules say you shouldn't attempt to catch the rocket.

-Aaron

Steve_Shannon

It doesn't matter where it was manufactured. Estes designed it and approved the final product. They are responsible.



Good observation. I hope we will get the full account.

crontab

You are right. Responsible. For shoving off low-quality junk on American consumers. From China.

ddmobley

Scope of the Recall

Q. Which models of X-15 Model Rockets are being recalled?
A. Model 1412 X-15 Ready-to-Fly Starter Set and Model 1890 X-15 Ready-to-Fly Model Rocket.

Q. When and where were the rockets sold?
A. Department, discount and toy stores as well as hobby shops and educational distributors throughout the United States, Canada and other countries sold the X-15 from June 2005 through August 2007.

Q. Where is the model number located?
A. It’s printed just above the bar code on the packaging. The bar code is located on both the back and bottom of the box of the X-15 Starter Set, and on the bottom of the plastic clam shell package of the X-15 Model Rocket.

Q. Are the model numbers anywhere other than on the packaging?
A. The model numbers 1412 and 1890 are located on the front page of the product instructions, at the top right.

Q. How else can consumer tell if their rocket is included in the recall?
A. The X-15 rocket in Model 1412 or 1890 is a 1.44 scale-like version of the North American Aviation hypersonic rocket plane. It is made of black molded plastic and has yellow and white markings and the number 66670 on its tail. The rocket is approximately 13.5 inches in length with a wingspan of about 5 inches.

The plane is not included in the recall if

• it looks like this but is not made of plastic or
  
• it is not an Estes product.

Reasons for Recall

Q. Why are the X-15 rockets being recalled?
A. The rocket’s side may split or the engine retainer ring may fall out, resulting in the rocket falling without the nose cone ejecting and the parachute deploying, posing a risk of an impact injury to nearby consumers.

Q. How did Estes learn of this issue?
A. Estes received reports of the nose and parachute failing to release in conjunction with the side splitting or engine retainer ring separating, including one report that a consumer was struck in the arm, requiring surgery.

Instructions for Participating in the Recall

Q. What should consumers do if they have one of the recalled X-15 rockets?
A. Consumers who have one of the recalled X-15 rockets should:

1. Stop using the rocket immediately, as there is a possibility of the rocket’s nose cone not ejecting, the rocket falling and striking nearby spectators.

2. Call 1 (800) 576-5811 toll-free or go to http://www....omerservice.php, to send an e-mail to Estes to register for the voluntary recall. (Consumers who send an email must provide their name, address, and telephone number in the email, and type RECALL in the Subject Line. They should also include the model number of their rocket.)

Estes will send participating consumers a pre-addressed, postage-paid envelope by First Class Mail. Consumers will then follow the instructions below to return only the molded plastic rocket to Estes and receive a replacement SpaceShipOne Flying Model Rocket Launch Set, free of charge.

Q. How will consumers receive a replacement rocket?
A. Consumers who register for the recall will receive from Estes a pre-addressed, postage paid envelope and the following instructions to return only the molded plastic X-15 rocket to Estes:

1. Make certain your model rocket does not contain an engine. Place only the plastic X-15 rocket only into the envelope that Estes will send to you after you register for the voluntary recall. Do not to return any launch supplies or equipment.
   
2. Mail the envelope with rocket enclosed back to Estes via the U.S. Postal Service.
   
3. You may keep any launch equipment for use with other rockets.
   
4. Upon receipt of the returned X-15 Rocket Estes will send a replacement SpaceShipOne Flying Model Rocket Launch Set, Model 1891. Please allow up to 4 weeks for delivery.

Q. Can consumers return the product back to the store?
A. No, to participate in the recall, consumers must contact Estes by calling 1 (800) 576-5811 toll-free or by going to our website, www.estesro...tomerservice.php .

Q. Why does it take 4 weeks to receive the replacement product?
A. Estes is working to provide your replacement as quickly as possible. Most likely you will receive your replacement sooner but we may experience a heavy volume of returns or unexpected delays.

Q. Can consumers keep their rocket if it has been launched and worked properly?
A. No. For the safety of consumers, it is important that they participate in the voluntary recall.

Q. Can consumers repair the X-15 rocket themselves?
A. No. To participate in the voluntary recall, consumers must follow the instructions above and will receive a new ready-to-fly scale rocket and launch set free of charge.

Q. May consumers get a refund instead of a new rocket set?
A. No. The recall remedy is a new launch set with ready-to-fly SpaceShipOne rocket, which Estes will provide free of charge, and not a refund.

From: http://estesrockets.com/14121890qa.php

Cas2047

Not sure where from my comment you read in that I was trying to say that Estes wasn't responsible. Obviously they are.

I was however implying that products made in China are, far to often, dangerous and not up to the standards of products made right here in the USA.

tbrogan

Once again we have to take into account that Estes-Cox had their products built in China. That does not remove the burden of quality control off of their shoulders. Apparently the US companies (and I'm sure companies based in other countries are going to start seeing this lack of QC soon) believe that they do not need to inspect the product. "Hey the Chinese built it, blame them!" seems to be a stock answer. They only seem to care that it will cost them money if China has to put more stringent rules in place, then Mattel runs back and says we had a defective product, its not your fault, sorry.

Then you have to look at the US and its manufacturing capabilities. Do we still have it here any more and could we find the people to work in the plants? A good deal of our manufacturing is long gone and condos, Wal-muck, Home Deported, Lowelys, have been put in their place. People do want to work in factories any more, and surely not for $3.00/day or whatever slave wages are being paid in China, India, etc... Hell you can't even get people to work in MacDonalds for $12.00/hr in NYC. We have become a service oriented economy that wants to live the good life (renting a life style from AmEx or Visa) without getting our hands dirty.

I think part of what makes rocketry fun for me is the fact that you can still build it by hand. As far as I can tell, you get a one or two RTF pass then its time to build. Tools, mostly hand tools, glue, screws, etc.... "When you build something with your own two hands and then watch it go way up in the sky, almost to space......" (Tim Lehr). Maybe we need to be getting that feeling about other things than rocketry.

Just my opinion, take it or leave it, I did.

We already have this recall posted on our club's website and we make sure that the RSO's discuss it at the range. It is NOT permitted to fly at our launches.

Tom

Steve_Shannon

It's simple, you pointed out the least of the problems: that the rocket was made in China. The real problem is that many American companies, concerned mostly with the bottom line, do a poor job of design and quality control. That cannot be blamed on the Chinese.

heada

Regarding the fact that it was made in China:

This is moot. It was not a manufacturing defect, it was a design defect. It wouldn't have mattered where it was manufactured as long as the design specifications were followed.

-Aaron

Bayourat

7 failures out of 80,000?? Please!!
I wish all my flights had them odds!


Whit R.

Cas2047

Well you are wrong for the second time. I never said that Estes wasn't responsible. Just that junk comes from China.

Your assertion that the "real" problem lies with American companies is overly simplistic. The problem is larger than design and quality control. Those are components of the larger problem, but certainly not the entire problem.

Steve_Shannon

So what is the entire problem?

jsdemar

It's TRF's fault!

heada

ok, now that thar is just plain funny....I don't care who ya are!

Blkbart46

I try to buy USA made. Flis,LOC,SEMROC,etc, they are out there and with much better quality.

Cas2047

Sorry for the lengthy waiting time to reply, but I attended the Boston Red Sox game last evening and needless to say we were celebrating late last night.

OK once more to level set, all I was implying is that in general China turns our junk. I wasn't speaking to responsibility for "This" error or trying to imply that the entire problem was China making junk.

Again my original post: “Manufactured in: China”

Now after implying that I am wrong for saying that China is completely at fault for this particular problem (not sure where I did that) you then follow-up stating that "The real problem is that many American companies, concerned mostly with the bottom line, do a poor job of design and quality control".

Since we're nit-picking I have to disagree. The real problem would have to include a much larger cast of characters. It's not as simple as an American company being greedy. In today's world these companies are involved in a very complex game of global competition.

I don't claim to have all the answers but certainly the larger problem involves at least the following;

• Those American companies trying to maximize profits at all costs. It doesn't matter where something is made, whether or not the labor that creates it is paid .20 per hour, whether or not the product is up to American standards, as long as the price is right. This leads to sub-standard products no matter how you look at it.
• Those American companies doing a poor job anywhere from idea conception to production.
• Those American companies not being in control of the end to end (conception to completion) process for products that are made in countries such as China.
• Those American companies not having tight enough control over the actual manufacturing process. If manufacturing is happening in a secretive and uncooperative country like China it’s more difficult to correct problems regardless of where they happened in the E2E process.
• The inability of American companies to be able to compete on a level playing field with companies in countries such as China where there are no, or very limited labor laws, very low pay, and in general conditions that would make consumers in this country not purchase the goods if they really knew where they were coming from.
• US Government not being serious about trade imbalances between this country and others.
• US Government not enforcing existing trade laws,
• China itself turns out crap. China could care less if the widget works as long as they can sell it.
• China has a very poor record of product safety, and governmental oversight is almost non existent. They have one of the most corrupt systems on the planet.
• China stealing the creations of American inventors and getting away with it time after time.

Have a great weekend! I know I will. We will be celebrating the AL East Championship title all weekend.

denverdoc

I'm old enough to remember Japanese crap(can you spell sony?), and then there was Korean crap(can you spell Samsung?), now Chinese crap. But who in their right mind would buy a TV produced here in the states, unless its from a boutique company specializing in high end? For that matter, one could almost say the same for the cars made here. But not wanting to start a war--I loved my Mustang GT. Give the process time, some great companies will emerge. In the meantime they will specialize in crap, but not all crap is created equal and one, for example, would be hard pressed to find a small lathe not manufactured in China. Both Grizzly and Penn State Industries sell high quality, highly cost competitive products made where???

Steve_Shannon

China. You are exactly right.

Another example is Delta. Their woodworking tools are mostly made in China now, and are very high quality. The quality is high because Delta places an emphasis on quality control. They place their representatives in-country and in-plant to make sure that they get what they designed. It's simple: the product is made to the quality demanded, or the contract manufacturer doesn't get paid.

The fact remains that no American company is forced to buy from a Chinese company that secretly builds junk. Some Chinese products are junk, as are some products from every country. But until people boycott junk, junk will continue to be made. Bashing China in general won't help.

There certainly are problems though with China and counterfeit products ranging from software to drugs. There certainly are problems with the US/China trade imbalance and the way the U.S. Government approaches that problem. There certainly are problems with human rights abuses in China. I've lived and worked overseas and witnessed those things first hand, with the exception of the human rights abuses. Those are serious problems that need to be seriously addressed. But they are not something we can fix in Rocketry Planet.

urbadave

I had one of these when they were manufactured back in the early 70's. I'm pretty sure they weren't made in China back then. They were as close to a solid plastic rocket as you could get. They were pretty heavy, they had a cheap plastic retaining ring for the 13mm motor that broke after about the fifth or sixth flight. Even if the chute deployed, it was so small that the only reason it wasn't damaged was because it was a solid piece of molded plastic.

Ya might as well just drop a streamlined plastic missile from 200'.

urbanek

denverdoc

lets face it, with a few noteworthy exceptions, Estes has been making pretty much crap rockets since the takeover by Damon.