H_rocket

I placed an order with Aerosleeves a couple of weeks ago (They were having a great sale). Seems that was the going out of business blast. I wrote to see what was the status on my order and got a note that they had canceled the order as they were out. I went to the website to see if anything else was available and there is a note that they are now closed.

Bummer

Steve_Shannon

This is probably wishful thinking, but could it mean that they are "now closed" as in for the holidays. Had they used the phrase "out of business" I would not be questioning it.

beharri

I wondered too, for the same reason as you, so I sent them an email. No reply yet.

Bruce

Mike Fisher

Nick and Jeff were looking for buyers for the business for a few months now. Binder Design nearly picked up the brand, but just couldn't swing it financially right now.

Best of luck to Nick and Jeff in their future endeavors! Aerosleeves will be missed.

Mike Fisher
Binder Design
http://binderdesign.com

ncrocketeer

Guys, if you need something Soller is a good place to do buisness. They wrap all of their cloths ona tube, then wrap in platic, then in paper and tape it up. They put it ina good size box for shipping and pack it with newspaper.

On the sleeving they did fold my sleeving but it's not like the cloth. It was not creased, or folded hard. It was layed back and forth and had a rubber band holding it. They then put that in a plastic wrapp9ing and taped that up nice.

They do a good job there. Be sure to check that you give them enough shipping on their website. They will refund the difference. It might calc too little and hold your order up. They only charge actual shipping costs...no fees.

Aw, and I have to say that I got some of the fastest shipping I have ever got before. I've been in lots of hobbies where I've had to order stuff, but I had a 1 hour turnaround from the time I placed the order to the time it was moving on a UPS truck! That kind of service is phenominal. There was discussion on another list if it was actually moving...it was. It was not just "billing info received". It was actually on a truck moving in less than an hour. I know that doesn't happen on every order, but it goes to show that they really get those orders moving there.

Hope this helps some guys out there in need.

WillCarney

I have gotten stuff from both Soller and Aerosleeves. I will miss Aerosleeves. Sometimes they had items that Soller did not have.

It's always sad to see a supplier or vender go out of business.

For those who have not gotten items from Soller they are great. Great products and customer service.

William

Chuck_Rudy

Now that Aerosleeves is gone the price of Soller stuff will head out of sight. Nonsupport of a rocket guy to save a few pennies will now cost everyone a fortune if they don't want seams.

The boat guy tried to put Aerosleeves out of business for quite a while, he's now succeeded with the chiselers help. Remember that next time you want to save a nickel to stick it to a rocket vendor who's just trying to make it work.

I believe self cannibalization is the correct term.

Chuck

porthos

Wow. I guess I'm lucky I got my order filled.

UncleVanya

Chuck - I think you are being too hard on folks. Several factors need to be considered:

1) Not everyone had a clue that Aerosleeves was in trouble. Not knowing this they couldn't rally and save a valued rocket vendor.

2) Not everyone had a clue that the "boat guy" (who is that?) was trying to run Aerosleeves out of business. Many may have assumed that this person simply had a better business model and was able to turn a profit at a lower cost than Aerosleeves.

3) Even when people try to save a small retailer - it doesn't always work. I myself have closed three local hardware stores (one after the other over the course of several years). I tried buying everything from them - always going there before a big box store - and buying even when the price was higher than elsewhere. Eventually they all closed. The problem is that my patronage was not sufficient. The market that I represent is tiny compared to the rest of the market. The major portion of the people buying the kinds of things that a hardware store carries were happy to go to the big box first and were very price motivated. The same may be true for rockets vs. boats. The "boat guy" may just have a better set of products when viewed across the all markets that exist for these products.

My point is that if Aerosleeves had let it be known a bit wider that they were in trouble and no one in the community had responded to help - that might show that there was some self-cannibalism going on to save a penny. Even if people in the rocket community had rallied then the result may not have been any more than prolonging the agony - hard to say.

Chuck_Rudy

Well I see it all the time with the 'rocket' group.

Here. http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=41783

That's one instance, I see it in the Hybrid Forum, guys buying CO2 tanks and retrofitting with nitrous valvles to save $2 more it would cost at several of the rocket vendors.

Ingenuity is one thing, to throw something like that in the face of vendors on a forum is quite annoying to see.

It is simply amazing to me how so many can't see the rocket for the smoke. Too many in this hobby like to eat their own.

I'll give this guy credit, he asked and got a vendor's response. http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=41937

So many vendors do it for the enjoyment of the hobby and make it easier on others, to try to stick it to them is unconsionable.

Chuck

ddmobley

Chuck, it's not limited to just the 'rocket' group, it's a wide-spread phenomenon known as the "Baby Boomers." This behavior is displayed all across America hundreds of thousands of times a day, maybe millions of times, in all aspects of the American way of life. These people are entitled. They are owed. And they expect it. It's been that way their entire life and we just turn our heads when it manifests itself.

"I MUST have a flat screen TV! And I will purchase one made in the Far East even if it means the RCA plant in the US will close. I don't care about anything except how my peers see me. I must have a flat screen."

Anyone who dissents to that point of view is called a global racist. In that same vein, that makes you are a hobbophobe because you want to support only hobby vendors. Ain't life great?

H_rocket

What I am not sure I understand is what's wrong with looking for the best value for my $$. I have shopped both of these places. Usually to see which one had want I wanted when I needed it. Yeah I would try to give Nick the benefit if he had what I was trying to buy, however I am not gonna sit on my hands and wait while two guys (and the next part is conjecture) run a supply business out of their dorm room.

Chuck_Rudy

The difference in this case is the boat guy was undercutting the rocket guy by a nickel to purposely gain the entire market, now accomplished he can charge whatevery he likes. Those needind the stuff are stuck paying his price. Bend over and enjoy it now.

Some rocket folks can't see past the end of their noses sometimes, and the result is? After you force rocket folks to close their doors? Higher prices. What's the old expression? Penny rich Dollar foolish?

To shop around amongst rocket vendors is not the same as phishing outside vendors to eliminate rocket vendors. I guess I'm a rockethobbophobe, perhaps a conscience does that to you.

Chuck


EDIT---- http://forums.newtons3rdro...=0&postorder=asc&start=0

H_rocket

Don't get me wrong, if it is rocket related, I go to a rocket person first. They always get first bite at the apple. And yes, just like I'll pay a few extra $$ to deal with the local mom and pop store, I'll pay a few extra $$ to help one of our own (there is one exception, however that one has a personal component). However, If a seller does not have what I want, or presents a noticeable price difference (my pain threshold is on the order of 10%) then I will vote with my wallet. That is market economics done my way.

What's funny to me, is that in this case, there was no indication (to me) they were going bye-bye. In fact when I saw the sale and jumped on it, the only way I found out that I was never going to get anything was when I asked.

kaycee

As (now) a former customer of Aerosleeves, I've never had anything but great service from them.

Given the time-table, one thing that sticks out is that when they opened the doors so to speak, they were young college students. They offered a product-- and delivered it, all the while going to school. Hopefully they were able to pay (at least) in part, their college fees. Four years or so have gone by since Aerosleeves came on the scene.

Perhaps they graduated and have moved on to 'real' jobs'.

UncleVanya

I should be smarter than this... but here goes:

Outsourcing... raises the standard of living. Let's ask this question: How many Americans today grow food vs. 50 years ago? How many people sew their own clothing compared to 100 years ago? While these seem extreme they are indicative of the same concept. The labor that was once used for this was 'made available' for other work. Sometimes the changing of the economic reality of one type of economy to another is very very hard on the people who are crushed in the change. That is sad and I am in no way trying to make light of it. But look at the next generation and the way that labor is freed to make new kinds of jobs and new economic growth.

What does this have to do with rockets? Not a lot - but maybe a whole lot. Estes uses Chinese; Quest uses Germans; etc. This lowers their costs but only if the volume reaches a certain level. For smaller vendors the quality of the product overcomes the cost barrier and they survive within a larger market without using China or another overseas partner. With Aerosleeves - I frankly have no idea. But if they were vulnerable to a $0.05 drop in price by another vendor then they must have been very vulnerable to begin with. A larger vendor may come along with the depth of pockets to attempt to keep this market honest - particularly if they operate that part of the business as a loss leader.

What Aerosleeves may have proven is that it is possible to be too specialized to survive long term no matter how nice you are and how good a product you have. Mind you - had they appealed to rocketeers and stated their plight they might have been able to stretch it out longer.

ddmobley

Yep. An an attorney in Dallas will soon literally be 'banking' on that.

Bexclent

What you say is true if you are one of those people who, as DD says, "must have a flat screen TV." A standard of living is objective, and the increase that outsourcing gives to it is only temporary. It is a dangerous downward spiral, that not many people care about.

I do agree that outsourcing has certainly changed what work a person has to do to maintain a given quality of life, but i'm not sure that is has been for the better! As the old saying goes - "time will tell."

Chuck_Rudy

Just a thought......are those with the 'flat screen' the same ones with the fat potato couch kids?

If we weren't in cubicles and perhaps had to labor would this country not be so fat?

Outsourcing is a rehash of this country's need to have a slave force. Slavery was outlawed here, then the sweat shop was outlawed here, but it's quite mentally appealing to allow the slave force and sweat shop to sleep in their own pile of straw near their place of birth. But of course we make ourselves feel better by saying 'they want to make money' or 'they want to be like us' or 'they are much better off'. Yep I feel much better.

Perhaps we're going the wrong direction.

But that is a stretch to get here from the idea that 'rocket' guys don't support their own and will then cry when prices go out of sight in a no competition market. And how did the C word get into the conversation?

Chuck

ddmobley

Outsourcing is indeed a temporary patch that uproots the lives of the American worker and serves as a bandaid for the corporations employing the technique.

Consider 10 years ago when so much IT work started being outsourced to India. Television ads constantly ran inviting people to become programmers, graphic designers, web developers. Those same technical schools today are advertising to train you to be corrections officers, crime scene investigators and court reporters. When a country as great as America takes the highly skilled jobs of its citizens and ships them to another country, there must be something for all of the unemployeed who are left behind to do, but this? Moving a nation from highly skilled jobs to becoming human warehouse tenders, evidence manufacturers and note takers?

America has become a country that has criminalized jay-walking ("Don't breath! It's 5 to 10!" Domestic abuse? Arrest them both, 2 for the price of 1! To hell with their police records, we don't have a real job for them to worry about their records anyway.) and takes a special pleasure in punishing and pushing down their brother man, to the point that the feeble law enforcement and corrections infrastructure are overwhelmed, forcing them to release real criminals.

In my small rural location, a town of less than 5,000, they currently are beginning construction of a 500 bed jail. National criminal statistics do not support a 10% incarceration rate in any city within the United States, but when presented with this information, the jail committee seemed unconcerned with that fact, stating, "It creates jobs." It also creates demand, which leads to questionable arrests and convictions. When the Number One Phrase of 2007 is "Don't tase me bro!," then this country has some very serious issues.

But none of them will ever be addressed, because the couch potatos Chuck mentioned don't give a damn unless it personally involves them and then only if they must do something about it themselves.

EDIT: I wanted to point out how Baby Boomers can affect legislation with the me-me-me attitudes. When only Hell's Angels rode motor cycles, the country was content with requiring that motor cycle riders must wear helmets. As soon as the Baby Boomer's got into their collective mid-life crises and bought Harley's themselves, at least here in the state of Florida they were adamant enough about their "freedoms" that they repealed the helmet laws for motor cycles. Fine. But what kind of regulatory body can justify on one hand fining someone for failing to buckle up their seatbelts, while on the other repealling motor cycle helmet laws? That is the epitome of inanity.

Chuck_Rudy

Darrell


With no slight meant to anyone, I believe you will find the simple observations you noted are an uphill climb to argue.

Rapists can justify their work.

Murderers justify killing.

Lawyers justify charging $200/hour to a kid making minimum wage.



No matter how benign or heinous, if human minds wish to twist something to their advantage they can and will do so. Opposing view points are usually shouted down with an assortment of odd stands. "If you are against this war you are not Patriotic". Those folks seem so naive now, where did they go?

If seat belts were nothing more than a tax, wouldn't school busses have them?

Not wearing a helmet is Darwinism pure and simple, it's a pity too many mulitiply before biting it. A bigger pity when they are kept alive on machines at taxpayer expense for no good reason.

Thanks goodness there are people to fight some of the battles, or we would all be living in the mushroom kingdom.

Now how did we get from Aerosleeves to mushrooms? What's next? Corn based ethanol and it's inherrent hypocrisy?

Chuck

H_rocket

Aerosleeves sold mushrooms packed in Ethanol?

Damn I'm out of the loop....

JonKerfoot

I guess I came along too late to help Aerosleeves stay in business - never really needed composites 'til they went OOB. It's sad, of course - though if the principals decided that "moving on" was necessary, it's less sad. I sure won't know one way or the other, will I?

That said, I look at Soller and see exactly what is there - a company that sells composite materials (including sleeving) to people who make things like fishing rods or canoe paddles or hockey sticks. Methinks they'd have far more people screaming if they raised prices than just us few rocketeers.

I can't argue the point of "taking care of one of our own", mainly because it's far too emotional a subject for many. As was said in Monty Python's Flying Circus years ago, "an argument is a connected series of statements intended to prove a point."

Now what do I do for my G Max Altitude project? Go to the hobby store and buy their fiberglass?

ddmobley

Nah, you answered your own question: send Soller an order and make that high flier!