FORT COLLINS, Colorado USA — On Saturday, June 7th, 2008, NCR will be hosting the Pawnee Pioneer Open to coincide with our regularly scheduled club launch.  Five events are scheduled to test your building skills and competitive spirit.  All NAR members are invited to join in this sanctioned competition activity. 

Northern Colorado Rocketry member Scott Harless' "Unleash the Beast" flies on an M1850 for his successful L3 cert.

We will need a minimum of 10 NAR contest fliers to make this a Regional Contest.  Find your copy of the United States Model Rocket Sporting Code (Pink Book) or go to the NAR website at http://www.nar.org/pinkbook/  for rules and specifics on the following events:

• B Parachute Duration - The purpose of this event is to achieve the longest flight duration time utilizing parachute recovery.
• B Boost Glider Duration (R/C allowed) - The purpose of this competition is to achieve the longest glider flight duration time.
• C Streamer Duration - The purpose of this event is to achieve the longest flight duration time utilizing streamer recovery.
• C Egg Loft Duration - The purpose of this event is to achieve the longest flight duration and recover the payload egg without damage.
• D Dual Egg Loft Duration - The purpose of this event is to achieve the longest flight duration and recover the payload eggs without damage. 

The entry fee for the Pawnee Pioneer Open will be $5.00 and this will allow you to compete in all of the competitions listed. You must have a NAR membership to compete. (If you'd like, we can get you signed up on the field!)

In the event of iffy weather a decision will be made no later than 11:00 AM as to what will be the contest's next step. 

Since 1959, sanctioned NAR model rocket competition has evolved into a proven method for challenging the individual to improve craftsmanship and flying skills. It is an activity that emphasizes patience, skill, and sportsmanship. Any NAR member can participate in NAR sanctioned competition.

The U.S. Model Rocket Sporting Code, or "Pink Book," is the official rulebook for conducting and participating in NAR sanctioned competition. NAR members can design and build model rockets for over 25 different competition events. Official US Records can be set in many of these events. The NAR has an archive of competition rocket plans suitable for many contest events and skill levels.

If you have never tried NAR competition, here are some suggestions in order to get you started.

Get onto the NAR website and look up the US Model Rocket Sporting Code, also known as the Pink Book. This is where you will find the rules for all of the events.  Look into the rules carefully and build around them.

Have a notebook with you and take notes on your own flights and your competitors strategies and tactics. (Model rocket competitors do not keep secrets. They will be quite open to your questions!)

And of course, always remember to have fun!  Hope to see you out on the range. 

For more information, visit our website at http://www.ncrocketry.org/, or send an email to the Pawnee Pioneer Open Contest Director at This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it .

01-19-2008 09:14 PM  #1
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open What a weenie competition--here we got miles of range and a 20K waiver and they pick events that could be flown in town at the whoosh-pop site, Guess I should go to mtgs. Pathetic picks IMHO.

01-20-2008 11:23 AM  #2
Steve_Shannon Will fly beer for rockets   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1653	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: What a weenie competition--here we got miles of range and a 20K waiver and they pick events that could be flown in town at the whoosh-pop site, Guess I should go to mtgs. Pathetic picks IMHO. Look at this as an opportunity to lure model rocketry people to the high power side.

01-20-2008 01:34 PM  #3
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2135	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: What a weenie competition--here we got miles of range and a 20K waiver and they pick events that could be flown in town at the whoosh-pop site, Guess I should go to mtgs. Pathetic picks IMHO. I don't think that's the club's fault, I think it's the fault of the organizing body that sanctions the competitions. The club can't hand out points for K-SuperRoc is the national body doesn't recognize it. Submit your suggestions to the NAR BoT for consideration at the upcoming meeting in March.

01-21-2008 06:44 AM  #4
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Last year we flew E B/G, F Superroc duration, D SD. This seems like a step backwards. But in part its an issue with the system--while its possible to do different events for the kids, there is some reluctance, and the system caps the weight factor points depending on whether its sectional, open, regional event. In other words even if we wanted to, we couldn't fly G everything. I never got to fly my 10' superroc cuz of weather--it weighs about 5 oz.

01-21-2008 10:17 AM  #5
Arthoag New Member   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 7	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: What a weenie competition--here we got miles of range and a 20K waiver and they pick events that could be flown in town at the whoosh-pop site, Guess I should go to mtgs. Pathetic picks IMHO. Wow! Why don't you just not come out then John. It sure seems like you are always more then willing to enjoy the benefits but then you go and make comments like this on a public forum? I think of rocketry as something that everyone of all skill levels can participate in. If you want to fly high power, then go for it, there will still be a waiver in place and NCR hosts a variety of other high power competitions if any of them interest you. Don't come out to the field with an attitude like that though! Art

01-21-2008 11:04 AM  #6
UncleVanya   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1435	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: I think of rocketry as something that everyone of all skill levels can participate in. If you want to fly high power, then go for it, there will still be a waiver in place and NCR hosts a variety of other high power competitions if any of them interest you. Don't come out to the field with an attitude like that though! Not going to take sides on this since I don't know the score. But I will say that the comments made earlier about the sanctioning body not offering a lot of options for contests that use larger motors is true. It would be nice if this was addressed. Perhaps that should be mentioned in the thread about the NAR trustees. However - in my local club where we are altitude challenged with a 4K max flight limit - we do not have the luxury of using large motors for contests. If we had a larger field I think we would probably do a number of larger motor contests for bragging rights only from time to time. I'm not sure if that situation would apply in your club - but the compromise might be nice - in addition to the sanctioned contest events you could have bragging rights large motor events with locally provided prizes. Simple ribbons and certificates are acceptable to most people. Just my thoughts...

01-21-2008 12:09 PM  #7
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Wow! Why don't you just not come out then John. It sure seems like you are always more then willing to enjoy the benefits but then you go and make comments like this on a public forum? I think of rocketry as something that everyone of all skill levels can participate in. If you want to fly high power, then go for it, there will still be a waiver in place and NCR hosts a variety of other high power competitions if any of them interest you. Don't come out to the field with an attitude like that though! Art Just an honest expression of disappointment with the events chosen. I could not attend the mtg in question, and I'm sure no one is losing sleep over my comments. I see this event as a chance to fly the wild and wooliest NAR events available, and to make a tradition of it. Others have different ideas. But I can live with it and will still participate.

01-21-2008 12:59 PM  #8
Arthoag New Member   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 7	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Just an honest expression of disappointment with the events chosen. I could not attend the mtg in question, and i'm sure no one is losing sleep over my comments. I see this event as a chance to fly the wild and wooliest NAR events available, and to make a tradition of it. Others have different ideas. But I can live with it and will still participate. Sorry to hear that you are disappointed over things but it is good to hear that you will still participate. Many people that could not attend the meeting coordinated with others to represent them in their absence, this option was announced on a couple occasions prior to the meeting. I don't think that it is right of you to make comments like you did when you passed by your opportunity to give input. I won't lose any sleep over your comments but I sure wish you would consider all the factors before you make comments like you did. Art

01-21-2008 01:04 PM  #9
Arthoag New Member   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 7	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Not going to take sides on this since I don't know the score. But I will say that the comments made earlier about the sanctioning body not offering a lot of options for contests that use larger motors is true. It would be nice if this was addressed. Perhaps that should be mentioned in the thread about the NAR trustees. However - in my local club where we are altitude challenged with a 4K max flight limit - we do not have the luxury of using large motors for contests. If we had a larger field I think we would probably do a number of larger motor contests for bragging rights only from time to time. I'm not sure if that situation would apply in your club - but the compromise might be nice - in addition to the sanctioned contest events you could have bragging rights large motor events with locally provided prizes. Simple ribbons and certificates are acceptable to most people. Just my thoughts... You ought to come out and fly with us, NCR did this last year and it turned out to be a great launch because of the variety of flyers and rockets going up. Lot's of fun! Art

01-21-2008 01:08 PM  #10
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2135	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Art, I didn't see anything wrong with DenverDoc's comments. He should be allowed to say whatever he feels. Likewise, the club's reasoning for making the decisions they did on the contests should equally withstand criticism. You won't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, but stifling member's is a sure way to create internal riffs that would cause far more damage. Go with the flow, let people think what they may and stick to your decisions, as long as they were made with good reasoning.

01-21-2008 01:28 PM  #11
UncleVanya   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1435	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: You ought to come out and fly with us, NCR did this last year and it turned out to be a great launch because of the variety of flyers and rockets going up. Lot's of fun! Art Sorry but a trip to your neck of the woods from Charlotte NC is not a trivial undertaking for me. Thanks for the invite but for now that's not a strong possibility.

01-21-2008 01:46 PM  #12
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Sorry to hear that you are disappointed over things but it is good to hear that you will still participate. Many people that could not attend the meeting coordinated with others to represent them in their absence, this option was announced on a couple occasions prior to the meeting. I don't think that it is right of you to make comments like you did when you passed by your opportunity to give input. I won't lose any sleep over your comments but I sure wish you would consider all the factors before you make comments like you did. Art Art, I meant no disrepect to the club. I stand by by remarks and really don't see what the issue is, nor what "factors" you might be referring to. No one is going to respect NCR any less just cuz I dissed the event selection. Nor are they going to be less likely to attend or participate. For the record, I have expressed my opinion on this matter before and on several occasions, but as if anyone cares, let me say so again: 1) that as a club with dual affiliation and a range to kill for, we should take the great opportunity to grow an annual regional event that features higher power, more challenging events than those typically seen at club launches, that two days should be devoted to it, and that serious consideration be given to holding it during MHM as an opportunity to showcase this aspect of the hobby. It should be "regional" so as to allow for flying the max number of WF points as possible. It seems that the club is moving more toward research and thats fine as well. Just don't expect any applause for something that could be held any weekend of the year at the CRASH site. We're all grown ups here and reserve the right to express opinions, controversial or unfavorable ones included.

01-21-2008 10:53 PM  #13
Constevens Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 26	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Art, I didn't see anything wrong with DenverDoc's comments. He should be allowed to say whatever he feels. Likewise, the club's reasoning for making the decisions they did on the contests should equally withstand criticism. You won't make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, but stifling member's is a sure way to create internal riffs that would cause far more damage. Go with the flow, let people think what they may and stick to your decisions, as long as they were made with good reasoning. Darrel, As you and I know there are always 2 sides to all stories. And not to make a whizzing match here out of it, I just feel compelled to speak on it. While I agree people should be able to say what they feel. It should though be done with a little class and correctness. Using the term "Weenie competition" isn't all that nice to those that have volunteered themselves and their time and put forth the effort to at least work on an event, and organize it, as well as be a part of it. I agree that somethings should withstand criticism. But Not when that person had no interest or involvement in it from the get go. Had John been willing to also donate of himself and get involved even by just going to the club meeting that had been known for many months or arrange as had been discussed by the club (to all its members) to vote and comment via proxy and show interest in it, then I would think he has every right to criticize or comment. Kinda like people that complain about their government but never vote.. To me they have no room for such. You are also right that you cant make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time and is thus the case here. But that still doesn't to me give anyone rights to insult others that have contributed or worked towards what is happening. To me stepping on those that regularly volunteer for all duties or toss in when needed is just as bad or worse as stifling anyone who didn't give any input to start with. Now know I am not personally attacking you or John,(and I hope you know that) Just what I see and feel and as you have said people have that right to speak especially beings I was there along with Art. So I can understand why Art is at issues with it as well. But Thats just my 2 cents. Conway

01-21-2008 11:34 PM  #14
Constevens Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 26	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: 1) that as a club with dual affiliation and a range to kill for, we should take the great opportunity to grow an annual regional event that features higher gpower, more challenging events than those typically seen at club launches, that two days should be devoted to it, and that serious consideration be given to holding it during MHM as an opportunity to showcase this aspect of the hobby. It should be "regional" so as to allow for flying the max number of WF points as possible. John Define what you mean By growing a annual regional event like you describe? Putting on a already large enough event like MHM is work in itself. Why would you wish to add more to it? Quote: It seems that the club is moving more toward research and thats fine as well. Just don't expect any applause for something that could be held any weekend of the year at the CRASH site. The club is moving in MANY different directions not only research. Even though I consider myself a hard core HPR/Altitude/Research guy, I still understand that others have needs or wants. That the hobby doesn't exist on my likings alone and that if we are to gain new members specifically younger members that will hold the future of this hobby we have to be diverse in what we do. Unfortunately there is only so much time and space we have to do with and we try to accommodate all of what we can to suit as many as possible. This particular event is new to NCR and it shows they are trying to expand beyond what they currently are. Sometimes things take some time to develop. With that as they say be patient and let it all mature. Ive been a part of this group many years as a founding member. Ive seen a lot happen to it in its time. It has grown and expanded greatly from those days with now hosting 2 large events MHM and OF as well as having several sanctioned research days and ranging in flyer's from all ages and motor sizes and more, as well To now adding this event. Quote: We're all grown ups here and reserve the right to express opinions, controversial or unfavorable ones included. Again see my comments above. But with this you are correct. We are all grown ups here and also should know when to reserve our comments or opinions or even try to think about them before posting them. Even the controversial and unfavorable ones. As they say look before you leap. But again Thats just my opinion..

01-22-2008 08:49 AM  #15
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2135	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: As you and I know there are always 2 sides to all stories. And not to make a whizzing match here out of it, I just feel compelled to speak on it. Conway, Please know that by continuing to escalate this insignificant issue you are making it a significant issue. John is not the first person to call model rocket contests "weenie" events, nor will he be the last. To call John out publicly for not attending meetings or contributing to the event operation is not the way professional people handle these situations. They are handled in private or in closed settings such as at the next launch or next meeting. To use a national rocketry discussion forum to publicly spank John is not the right way to handle the situation, as I am sure embarassing him will create the wrong result. Please stop before the general public gets the wrong idea. If you absolutely must respond, do it in PM.

01-22-2008 08:50 AM  #16
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Con, I'm not sure how much you know about NAR events/competition. Of the regular HPR fliers in NCR, I likely have the most experience with this aspect of rocketry as we flew competitions like this on a regular basis in Utah where I was active in NAR competion for a good number of years. The important thing is to have it nearly the same time every year, and to make it a regional event. This way, people from around the state and neighboring states are more likely to attend. It also allows the WF points to be maximized. Theres a great deal of strategy to picking the events one flies at, and so it needs to be a constant fixture. Also, since B BG and the like are flown on a regular basis at smaller venues like Bear Creek, it seems a golden opportunity to fly some of the events seldom seen. There is also a good chance altimeters will be in use by this time for NAR events, and so E and above altitude event would be a good choice. Things have changed since then with HPR taking off. So my reasoning in having it at a major launch like MHM is to again maximize attendance. The range issues and increased work were discussed in detail last lear on both the NCR site and IIRC to some extent on CRASH. I believe it would actually reduce the workload as all LPR flights could be managed by Crash and club volunteers. This would go a long ways to relieving the crush on the RSO table by having parallel range operations. Again all of this is old news and discussed in detail on the NCR forum last year. So its not a matter of never having suggested any of this and then being irritated when its not adopted.

01-22-2008 01:22 PM  #17
Constevens Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 26	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Conway, Please know that by continuing to escalate this insignificant issue you are making it a significant issue. John is not the first person to call model rocket contests "weenie" events, nor will he be the last. To call John out publicly for not attending meetings or contributing to the event operation is not the way professional people handle these situations. They are handled in private or in closed settings such as at the next launch or next meeting. To use a national rocketry discussion forum to publicly spank John is not the right way to handle the situation, as I am sure embarassing him will create the wrong result. Please stop before the general public gets the wrong idea. If you absolutely must respond, do it in PM. Darrel, Its not a matter of me trying to escalte the issue and for some it may not be insignificant. Again I point out the people that the comment directly affected. It is me, Like John voicing my opinion and as what you have stated is all good and fine and should be acceptable to do as we all have that right. Calling people in his own club names or insulting them is also not the professional way to handle the situation either. John calling those in his own club names or downing them publicly here is my issue not what others say. If John had problems with what was going on then he should have been involved or do as you state and contact those off line via email or PM or in private and the whole issue is moot. Im not trying to down John or anyone here or give anyone a public spanking. As far as Embarasing John, I think his post from himself did that enough, especially with his local peers. All I did was try to make point as did Art. Maybe before this got to this point the same suggestions should or could have been made to John. Darrel, I respect what you are saying here but there is 2 sides to this and I would think a guy that believes like you do can appreceate both and would be fair to both. It is your site and you can do as you like, so.. As far as continuing this part of the discussion on this topic Im done. If it is desired to go further and be done via PM feel free to contact me. Conway

01-22-2008 01:33 PM  #18
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Conway, Funny, I don't feel embarrassed. I called no one names and insulted no one so far as I know. I have also responded repeatedly that no disrespect was intended toward the club. What I find curious is you and Art are the ones making the biggest issue of it and neither have likely flown less than a J motor in many moons, that neither of you participated in last years NAR contest, and that neither of you are likely to participate in this years contest. So exactly what is the issue is what I'm trying to figure out? If its its you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all credo, fine then take your own advice and live by it.

01-22-2008 02:08 PM  #19
Constevens Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 26	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Con, I'm not sure how much you know about NAR events/competition. Of the regular HPR fliers in NCR, I likely have the most experience with this aspect of rocketry as we flew competitions like this on a regular basis in Utah where I was active in NAR competion for a good number of years. Some But not a whole lot. But we do have members that have been competitve NAR members for many years. Some being involved since the 60's. Some that are record holders still yet to this day. So we do have a pretty fair group of folks that have more then enough know how. I would suggest maybe jumping on board and working with them especially if you like the idea of the event and would like to contribute. Quote: The important thing is to have it nearly the same time every year, and to make it a regional event. This way, people from around the state and neighboring states are more likely to attend. It also allows the WF points to be maximized. Theres a great deal of strategy to picking the events one flies at, and so it needs to be a constant fixture. Also, since B BG and the like are flown on a regular basis at smaller venues like Bear Creek, it seems a golden opportunity to fly some of the events seldom seen. There is also a good chance altimeters will be in use by this time for NAR events, and so E and above altitude event would be a good choice. . Ok, I will agree that having at the same time every year makes alot of sense. But having it in combination with a bigger event like MHM or OF is just not a good idea personnaly. I say make one event the same time of the year just for such. I to would like to see NAR adopt the use of altimeters as there are now many great products that are certified and will work great. Quote: Things have changed since then with HPR taking off. So my reasoning in having it at a major launch like MHM is to again maximize attendance. The range issues and increased work were discussed in detail last lear on both the NCR site and IIRC to some extent on CRASH. I believe it would actually reduce the workload as all LPR flights could be managed by Crash and club volunteers. This would go a long ways to relieving the crush on the RSO table by having parallel range operations. Again all of this is old news and discussed in detail on the NCR forum last year. So its not a matter of never having suggested any of this and then being irritated when its not adopted. Maxamizing attendance? Most flyers that are competing in these contest arent HPR flyers or if they are when they do events like this they are concentrated on what they are doing for the competition. Reguardless, it was disscussed and the otcome is what it is.. Again NCR is still growing and working on these events. Nothing is ever perfect its first or even few times after that. It takes some adjusting. I think as time continuies it will get better, just as out other events have.

01-22-2008 02:23 PM  #20
Constevens Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 26	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Conway, Funny, I don't feel embarrassed. I called no one names and insulted no one so far as I know. I have also responded repeatedly that no disrespect was intended toward the club. What I find curious is you and Art are the ones making the biggest issue of it and neither have likely flown less than a J motor in many moons, that neither of you participated in last years NAR contest, and that neither of you are likely to participate in this years contest. So exactly what is the issue is what I'm trying to figure out? If its its you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all credo, fine then take your own advice and live by it. John, as stated above I futher will not disscuss this via public disscussion. If you wish you can email me or PM me and we can continue there. Conway

01-22-2008 02:49 PM  #21
Arthoag New Member   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 7	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open For 7 moons in a row I competed in the 4-H fly day competitions at both the county level and state level. I took Grand Champion at the Colorado State Fair one year with my display rocket. ? I fly my mini spool at least 30 times every year on a, b, and C motors Man that mini spool flies great! Art Quote: Conway, Funny, I don't feel embarrassed. I called no one names and insulted no one so far as I know. I have also responded repeatedly that no disrespect was intended toward the club. What I find curious is you and Art are the ones making the biggest issue of it and neither have likely flown less than a J motor in many moons, that neither of you participated in last years NAR contest, and that neither of you are likely to participate in this years contest. So exactly what is the issue is what I'm trying to figure out? If its its you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all credo, fine then take your own advice and live by it.

01-22-2008 03:03 PM  #22
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open I must have missed the mini spool--I stand corrected, but lets face it, Art, you are more often associated with N clusters than "A" motors For the record, I think the point has been amply made and to all of those offended by my word choice, my apologies as that was not the intent. But they are "weenie" events--D dual egg loft excepted.

01-22-2008 06:41 PM  #23
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2135	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Maybe before this got to this point the same suggestions should or could have been made to John. Darrel, I respect what you are saying here but there is 2 sides to this and I would think a guy that believes like you do can appreceate both and would be fair to both. How do you know nothing was said to John in PM, Conway? Are you saying that since their are two sides to every story, I should just let you guys duke it out until a winner is declared? If you run a group, you are going to find out occasionally individuals have differing opinions than the direction the group is taking, but as a representative of the group, you have an obligation to take the higher road, otherwise your actions becomes a reflection of the group. I am not perfect and fight this same thing every day when people can not differentiate Darrell Mobley, the hobby rocketry enthusiast from Darrell Mobley, the proprietor of Rocketry Planet. The pattern is easy to recognize because I am guilty of the same thing. In the long run, it is my opinion you will be better served to keep a soothing public appearance and take disturbances to the back room.

01-25-2008 10:19 PM  #24
BReidSch BReidSch   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Listen, this event is for younger people, and those adults with enough talent to compete with them. NCR is a dual club: we serve all, NAR & TRA, and all ages, at all powers. As someone said in this thread, you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. Very true, and anyone who organizes and volunteers is subject to criticism. Fine. HPR rockets will be shot on range left simultaneously with the event. Joe Hinton and I will be running the NAR contests. We chose what events would appeal to all. Super-Roc at the F-G level is pretty much frowned upon by NAR and will more than likely abolished for safety reasons. Trust me, our 20k waiver will be used. And, what NAR events go that high? NAR has always been about skill, TRA skill and power. A weenie, and proud of it... Bruce Schaefer NAR 12069 L3 TRA 11386 L3

01-26-2008 12:41 AM  #25
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open As to being frowned upon by NAR, there has been a proposal to abolish F/G SR competition discussed here:http://www.rocketryplanet....ums/showthread.php?t=947 This is one mans opinion and hardly representative of NAR thought as a whole. Its like saying cuz one legislator proposed a mandatory death sentence to pedophiles, the state legislature supported such. By reading thru the comments re abolition of F-G supperroc events, you can see that at least in this small sampling of opinion the answer is a resounding NO. Before now, the remark about "weenie" competition was off-hand and meant to insult no one, only the size of the events. Now to give in to the proposal of one weenie, really invites the term applied more broadly. As mentioned, separation of Div A vs B/C or A/B vs C is a non-issue.

01-26-2008 02:48 AM  #26
BReidSch BReidSch   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: Before now, the remark about "weenie" competition was off-hand and meant to insult no one, only the size of the events. Now to give in to the proposal of one weenie, really invites the term applied more broadly. I understand your position, John. We all often type things in a different context than it is taken. And, thank you for that other forum thread. BTW, John, you came in first in the Senior level A parachute duration last year. Kicked my booster! Ease up! We'll have M's and N's blasting from the left range, and the occasional O on TRA Research days. NAR is about bringing the young into the hobby. You can fly what you wish on the left range. Still, and I agree with the moderator, we're just expressing our opinions. None of this publicly is meant as a personal attack, just an exchange of ideas and opinions. For now, we still have freedom of speech. I still, and would like the enlightenment from others, how much power do NAR contests allow? What's the maximum impulse? G? What I know about rocketry came from NAR when I was younger, invaluable lessons. High/higher/highest power is about construction techniques. This isn't rocket science... oh, wait it is. Best to all, Bruce Schaefer NAR 12069 L3 TRA 11386 L3

01-26-2008 11:32 AM  #27
heada Certifiable   Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 477	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open I believe the limitation for NAR contests is whatever falls under the definition of model rocketry versus high power rocketry. In this case: - up to 320Ns total impulse (2 G motors) - no more than 80N average thrust - no more than 1500 grams total weight - no more than 125 grams of propellant - no more than 3 stages I'm sure all the rules are spelled out in the "pink book" http://www.nar.org/pinkbook/index.html -Aaron

01-26-2008 11:46 AM  #28
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open Quote: I understand your position, John. We all often type things in a different context than it is taken. And, thank you for that other forum thread. BTW, John, you came in first in the Senior level A parachute duration last year. Kicked my booster! Ease up! We'll have M's and N's blasting from the left range, and the occasional O on TRA Research days. NAR is about bringing the young into the hobby. You can fly what you wish on the left range. Still, and I agree with the moderator, we're just expressing our opinions. None of this publicly is meant as a personal attack, just an exchange of ideas and opinions. For now, we still have freedom of speech. I still, and would like the enlightenment from others, how much power do NAR contests allow? What's the maximum impulse? G? What I know about rocketry came from NAR when I was younger, invaluable lessons. High/higher/highest power is about construction techniques. This isn't rocket science... oh, wait it is. Best to all, Bruce Schaefer NAR 12069 L3 TRA 11386 L3 Thats too funny. I actually won one of the weenie events I was griping about. By all means lets fly that one again! Bruce, you're my hero: when I was just about exhausted after three years of trying to get this contest in the air, you stepped in and closed the deal--along with the support of Russ A, Joe H, et al. I believe in one of my e-mails I thanked you for such and remarked to the effect that as a politician on a scale of 1-10, I was in a league all my own, or at least shared with a select few... (fill in with your favorite zealot, terrorist or gangster). Seems my skills as a diplomat are still wanting, so I am really glad to have you step in here and verify my weenie credentials. Truly. I was only bummed that the event selection didn't include a couple more that could exploit our range size. How folks transmogrified this groan into an attack on weeniehood emphasizes the potential danger of the written word generally, and e-mail/forums specifically. This upcoming event just so happens to coincide with my birthday--and plan to celebrate by flying the same events I knew and loved as a kid, had nearly mastered as an adult 20 years ago, and still love to this day. I also plan on eating a few weenies for lunch on the way.

01-26-2008 08:30 PM  #29
BReidSch BReidSch   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open John, I appreciate the compliments. We're all brothers in this. It's all good. We need timers, please volunteer!

01-26-2008 08:50 PM  #30
denverdoc Rana sapiens   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1732	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open I'll quadruple the deal and bring three time keepers to help, all of course disintereted parties, but happy to see dad win...

01-26-2008 09:03 PM  #31
BReidSch BReidSch   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 5	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open There you go!

01-28-2008 05:32 PM  #32
rocketman28 rocken rocketman   Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 22	Re: Northern Colorado Rocketry announces Pawnee Pioneer Open do you have a map were it is