GORMLEY, Ontario CAN — The CAR Motor Certification Committee has tested and certified two new exciting Pro150® reloads using our popular White Thunder™ propellant.

The O5800 and O8000 motors are based on hardware developed for a commercial customer to boost small cruise missiles. For HPR usage we added 45 seconds of tracking smoke. The O8000 is a full (100%) O design, the maximum allowed for HPR use. This is the largest motor ever certified for hobby use. Both motors are very high performance with a delivered Isp of around 224 seconds!

Cesaroni's new Pro150 O motors.

Previous Pro150 designs used multiple grains in each motor that were assembled in the factory. The new motors use a single grain design. Because the motors are no longer segmented, the hardware nomenclature has been updated to reflect the new design. The previous 3G casing is now a 30k (30,000 Ns) casing. The 4G hardware is now a 40k (40,000 Ns) casing. The 40k casing is actually a 30k casing with a 10k extension.

With the recently introduced Pro38® White Thunder motors, we now have a complete lineup of White Thunder propellant for each hardware diameter (Pro38, Pro54®, Pro75®, Pro98® and Pro150).

Website: http://www.pro38.com/

Pro150®, Pro38®, Pro150®, Pro54® and Pro98® are registered trademarks and White Thunder™ is a trademark of Cesaroni Technology Incorporated in Canada.

05-01-2008 05:32 PM  #1
freda Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 15	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Geeze-aroni! Cool! What's the MSRP on the reloads and HW?

05-01-2008 06:28 PM  #2
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified What are the price points on these consumer products? Just Jerry

05-01-2008 06:37 PM  #3
jsdemar NAR/TRA L3   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 289	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

05-01-2008 08:43 PM  #4
ACME prolific dust-maker   Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 59	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: If you have to ask, you can't afford it. I don't have to ask (i can guess,) but i still can't afford it. I just hope i'm around somebody who can when they decide to go for it!

05-01-2008 10:05 PM  #5
contrailrockets Certified Level One   Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 27	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified What restrictions are imposed on shipments of the reloads? Are they shippable throughout the US, what about internationally? Tom

05-01-2008 10:31 PM  #6
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: What restrictions are imposed on shipments of the reloads? Are they shippable throughout the US, what about internationally? Tom We may hear from Anthony, but it is my understanding the reloads are 1.3C (not sure what specific class, perhaps UN-0186 rocket motor or UN-0499 Propellant Solid) and are either CE approved or soon will be. That makes them 49 state and about 14+ country compatible. I do not know what his plan is regards CA since an "O" exceeds CA HPR. Just Jerry

05-01-2008 10:38 PM  #7
contrailrockets Certified Level One   Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 27	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: We may hear from Anthony, but it is my understanding the reloads are 1.3C (not sure what specific class, perhaps UN-0186 rocket motor or UN-0499 Propellant Solid) and are either CE approved or soon will be. That makes them 49 state and about 14+ country compatible. I do not know what his plan is regards CA since an "O" exceeds CA HPR. Just Jerry Jerry, I figured there would probably be little use for them in California, but since they are part of the Commercial line of CTI Products, I also assume they probably already have some sort of hazard class. What I was wondering was how they deal with shipping a large single grain slug of fuel. It is one thing to ship 40K Newtons of H-121 Grains but it is a whole other issue shipping a single 40K Newton "Single Grain" of fuel. I wonder what the Shipping cost would be???

05-01-2008 10:40 PM  #8
tfish Certified Level Two   Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Here's a photo of one of the O-5100 in an AeroPac group project http://www.to100k.org/ The rockets name was "all in" It was a 2 stage min diameter. O-5100 to M-1000. The sustainer had an airframe 'problem' during boost. Tony

05-01-2008 10:42 PM  #9
H_rocket Certified Level Three   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 261	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: I wonder what the Shipping cost would be??? If you have to ask, I probably can't afford it.

05-01-2008 10:48 PM  #10
contrailrockets Certified Level One   Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 27	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Story Time... A while ago (A Few Years Back) there was a discussion between some people about how to not lose your butt as a Motor Manufacturer. There was CTI, AT, Loki, AMW, Ellis, as well as the Hybrid Guys all working to make motors, and no one wanting to become poor in the process. If you asked around you would find that the "Big 2" had different opinions on how to not lose your butt in making motors. AT seemed to go by the school of thought "Make a small motor, and market the hell out of it. Sell Thousands and make a little bit on each one" A little bit of course adds up to a lot after you sell enough of them. CTI seemed to go by the opposite school of thought... "Make A Big Motor, and all you need to do is sell a few, charge a bunch more and you made 1000 little motors worth of profit." ... Its just a story, but I thought of it when I saw the release of the new motors.

05-02-2008 12:18 AM  #11
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: What I was wondering was how they deal with shipping a large single grain slug of fuel. I wonder what the Shipping cost would be??? Again from first hand experience and a guess as to the hazard class CTI has achieved, By truck with a typical commercial rate, possibly with all discounts canceled (around $300?), plus a small hazmat charge of $45 and by ground or sea. Probably mot much more to ship 4 than 1. Probably not by air. Just Jerry

05-02-2008 12:25 AM  #12
jsdemar NAR/TRA L3   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 289	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: We may hear from Anthony, but it is my understanding the reloads are 1.3C (not sure what specific class, perhaps UN-0186 rocket motor or UN-0499 Propellant Solid) and are either CE approved or soon will be. That makes them 49 state and about 14+ country compatible. Transport documentation says UN0186. Shipping restrictions may be different now due to the single-grain design. Probably around 40# of propellant. -John

05-02-2008 12:35 AM  #13
contrailrockets Certified Level One   Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 27	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified We could all make assumptions, I wonder if Anthony will chime in with the Official Answer? Another question would be how does the AT N-4800 Ship? How does the N-4800 and New CTI Motors compare? Tom

05-02-2008 10:08 AM  #14
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: Transport documentation says UN0186. Shipping restrictions may be different now due to the single-grain design. Probably around 40# of propellant. -John That means it can be shipped Fedex Airport to airport or by truck pretty much anywhere. My $300 + $45 estimate is pretty close. Just Jerry

05-02-2008 11:03 AM  #15
gregm Certified Level One   Joined: May 2007 Posts: 17	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified This would give a rough idea where the reload price point is: http://www.wildmanrocketry...id1=55&groupid2=59464260 Doesn't have a listing for the hardware.

05-02-2008 12:46 PM  #16
jsdemar NAR/TRA L3   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 289	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: This would give a rough idea where the reload price point is: http://www.wildmanrocketry...id1=55&groupid2=59464260 Doesn't have a listing for the hardware. The O5100 retails for $2000, so Wildman's $2300 must include the $300 shipping (as JI estimated). -John

05-02-2008 12:57 PM  #17
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: The O5100 retails for $2000, so Wildman's $2300 must include the $300 shipping (as JI estimated). -John That's roughly 10-14% above what USR used to charge for a similar power 152mm reload. Fair price. Just Jerry

05-02-2008 02:08 PM  #18
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2142	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: That's roughly 10-14% above what USR used to charge for a similar power 152mm reload. Fair price. Inflation? I understand they also have a hardware rental program.

05-02-2008 02:15 PM  #19
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: Inflation? I understand they also have a hardware rental program. The cost of CE marking is incredible. Far more than CAR testing and DOT combined. Also CTI reloads include more and more expensive parts than many reloads. CTI has exceptionally high chemical quality and processing quality. A 14% premium is minimal for all of that. As with most HPR vendors, he is basically giving away aerospace grade product so you can have some fun. Just Jerry

05-02-2008 03:09 PM  #20
contrailrockets Certified Level One   Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 27	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: Inflation? I understand they also have a hardware rental program. I think all the suppliers of large motors and large motor hardware have rental programs available in one form or another. Tom

05-02-2008 05:15 PM  #21
UncleVanya   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1441	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: That's roughly 10-14% above what USR used to charge for a similar power 152mm reload. Fair price. Jerry - what elapsed timeframe are we talking about here? I'm surprised it is as close in price as you indicate. That's pretty amazing considering all of the changes in other prices in recent years. Go Anthony! That said, I don't have $2300.00 burning a whole in my pocket...

05-05-2008 09:08 AM  #22
dknight Certified Level 2   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 12	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified I don't have $2.3k swimming around in my wallet either. But... 52 weeks at about $45 a week. Or about $6.50 a day...... It will sell. Not a lot but it will sell. Doug

05-05-2008 09:19 AM  #23
H_rocket Certified Level Three   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 261	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: Or about $6.50 a day...... Hey that's only one MegaGrande Mocha-latte-expresso-chino light with sprinkles and an extra shot of steam per day! Drink black out of the office pot for a year and you can play with the really big dogs.

05-05-2008 11:29 AM  #24
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2142	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Actually, that would make a good advertising campaign. "For just $6.50 per day, you could help Al achieve his dreams. Won't you support this worthy cause? Al is counting on you..."

05-05-2008 12:51 PM  #25
UncleVanya   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1441	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: Actually, that would make a good advertising campaign. "For just $6.50 per day, you could help Al achieve his dreams. Won't you support this worthy cause? Al is counting on you..." I want in on this action... I don't even need $6.50 a day. My needs are smaller... Maybe an M? Please won't you help support my cause?

05-07-2008 07:19 AM  #26
DumasBro2 I Felta Thi Frat Boy   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 200	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified "Everyday thousands of rocketeer go without. Sometimes even months between launches. They cut back, even as far as A,B, and C motors just to get by. Now you can help, for just dollars a day. All it takes is for good people to do nothing to keep them in this funk. Call and sponsor a child errrr...rocketeer today, 1-800-AP4-THEM. You'll be glad you did."

05-07-2008 09:15 AM  #27
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2142	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified I called, and they were speaking Chinese.

05-07-2008 10:57 AM  #28
jsdemar NAR/TRA L3   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 289	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: "Everyday thousands of rocketeer go without. Sometimes even months between launches. They cut back, even as far as A,B, and C motors just to get by. Now you can help, for just dollars a day. All it takes is for good people to do nothing to keep them in this funk. Call and sponsor a child errrr...rocketeer today, 1-800-AP4-THEM. You'll be glad you did." This gets my vote for the funniest damn thing I've heard on here in a long time. LOL!

05-07-2008 11:41 AM  #29
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 556	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: Jerry - what elapsed timeframe are we talking about here? I'm surprised it is as close in price as you indicate. I had the about same prices from 1972 to 2002. I then raised prices about 40% to improve dealer margins and account for over 30 years of inflation. It is those higher prices they are 14% above. Again cheap indeed for what it is. Just Jerry

05-07-2008 05:58 PM  #30
UncleVanya   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1441	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: "Everyday thousands of rocketeer go without. Sometimes even months between launches. They cut back, even as far as A,B, and C motors just to get by. Now you can help, for just dollars a day. All it takes is for good people to do nothing to keep them in this funk. Call and sponsor a child errrr...rocketeer today, 1-800-AP4-THEM. You'll be glad you did." This cracked me up. I was thinking it... but you posted it. Kudos!

05-07-2008 05:59 PM  #31
UncleVanya   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 1441	Re: New Cesaroni Pro150 White Thunder reloads certified Quote: I had the about same prices from 1972 to 2002. I then raised prices about 40% to improve dealer margins and account for over 30 years of inflation. It is those higher prices they are 14% above. Again cheap indeed for what it is. Just Jerry Agreed.