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 Monday you may have not even heard that Flight 1544 flying from Houston to Cleveland was nearly hit by what numerous witnesses on the plane described as a cylinder shaped object with a long plume of thick smoke pouring out its back. Many said it flew rapidly past the front of the plane, nearly missing it. The plane was flying at an altitude of 5,000 feet and 11 miles east of Bush Intercontinental Airport. The Pilot radioed to the control tower that the object was “missile-like with a thick contrail” traveling at a high rate of speed.
Media outlets and the FAA are suggesting that this object seen by 148 passengers was just a model rocket. Doug Hagman, Director of Northeast Intelligence Network told me this week that he was called by one of the passengers who told him that the story being circulated by local and other media as well as the FAA story was not correct. It was no “toy” rocket and that they had all been told to say nothing to the media. Doug also talked with the lady passenger’s husband. Both were terrified about giving their names but even more terrified about even flying again. When the above passenger tried to call a few local media sources to report what she saw, they all told her that it was no story and it was known already that it was just an innocent toy that shot by. I guess dumb old me just wonders why if it was just a junior high model rocket gone amiss, everyone was ordered to be quiet and to say nothing to anyone. Witnesses reported a fast moving, missile like object with a heavy smoke plume. I suppose there is always the outside reality that it could be a model rocket but sources told me it was highly unlikely that a toy rocket would move at such a fast speed with such a thick and huge smoke plume trailing behind it. Doug Hagman reminded us of yet another near-hit of American Airlines Flight 612. Passengers then described what appeared to be a rocket back on November 26, 2005 barely missing the plane over Santa Monica Bay, once again at 5000 feet. Shockingly, authorities minimized this as a model rocket attack. This quickly left the news as well. In the meantime you might recall endless newsflashes since 9/11 about Muslim Terrorists trying to acquire shoulder missiles and other portable type missiles and doing surveillance at airports now and again. But….what am I smoking? That is just freedom of movement and expression. They wouldn’t actually shoot something at a plane? The only solution which makes any sense in a time of war, with Islamic killers roaming our streets and doing surveillance on our planes and airports is to assume that a Junior High kid fired a toy rocket both times and got horribly confused about where to point it. We all know when buying toy rockets for our boys that they fly thousands of feet and have plumes that appear like a jet planes. Be concerned, be very concerned. Are toy rockets from hell coming to a plane near you? Copyright © 2008, Dr. Laurie Roth - All Rights Reserved.
05-30-2008 03:10 PM
#1
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If pigs had fins...
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2779
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: ...said it flew rapidly past the front of the plane, nearly missing it.
Uh... maybe she means "hitting" not missing? |
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05-30-2008 03:21 PM
#2
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Certifiable
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 811
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
For some reason, I think a "near miss" is/was an FAA term for when two objects were too close to each other but dis not connect with each other. As in, it was a miss because the objects were too near to each other. The term may have been changed to avoid confusion.
-Aaron
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05-30-2008 03:22 PM
#3
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New Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
What about that last fear-mongering sentence? "Be concerned, be very concerned. Are toy rockets from hell coming to a plane near you?" This is the kind of misinformed hysterical rhetoric that will have Mr. & Mrs. Joe Lunchbox screaming to have all model rockets banned. And you know that some publcity-seeking media-whore, er, politician will take up the cause and the next thing you know we'll be back to flying water rockets.
Chris Pearson
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05-30-2008 03:50 PM
#4
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If pigs had fins...
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2779
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: What about that last fear-mongering sentence? "Be concerned, be very concerned. Are toy rockets from hell coming to a plane near you?" This is the kind of misinformed hysterical rhetoric that will have Mr. & Mrs. Joe Lunchbox screaming to have all model rockets banned. And you know that some publcity-seeking media-whore, er, politician will take up the cause and the next thing you know we'll be back to flying water rockets.
Chris Pearson
I'm not sure how to respond. If you read this article and came away with the impression that she was not being sarcastic I'm confused. If I'm missing your sarcasm forgive me. I've read some of her other items and I can pretty clearly state that I do not think in any way that she meant for that to be taken at face value. I am certain that she was trying to make a point - that it is impossible for a "toy" model rocket (not a hpr hobby rocket) to do this. The earlier incident on T-giving was also whitewashed and shoved under a rock - her real agenda here is to point out that neither of these was caused by a toy rocket. She's not sure what it was - but she seems to be leaning towards missiles not toys. |
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05-30-2008 03:51 PM
#5
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Certifiable
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 58
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: What about that last fear-mongering sentence? "Be concerned, be very concerned. Are toy rockets from hell coming to a plane near you?" This is the kind of misinformed hysterical rhetoric that will have Mr. & Mrs. Joe Lunchbox screaming to have all model rockets banned. And you know that some publcity-seeking media-whore, er, politician will take up the cause and the next thing you know we'll be back to flying water rockets.
Chris Pearson
Sarcasm. It's an artform not always understood. Dr. Roth has her own nationally syndicated radio talk show and is apparantly talking about things Rush, Sean and others choose to ignore. Like phony cover stories about model rockets. We should commend her for challenging the orchestrated B.S. flowing out of the federal bureaucracy. And thank me very much for finding this story. |
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05-30-2008 04:02 PM
#6
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Administrator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3189
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: And thank me very much for finding this story. Yes, thank you. And Google. An alert hit my mailbox this morning, but it was queued up with others before it, so I was a little late in posting it. But, please, everyone, keep the article submissions coming. We all need to be vigilant over threats to our hobby, and aggregate them centrally here to make everyone aware. |
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05-30-2008 04:15 PM
#7
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Certifiable
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 58
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
You're welcome. And no sarcasm.
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06-02-2008 02:01 PM
#8
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Certified Level One
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Should we really be promoting (edited to add - "a link between the rocketry community and") this kind of article? Just because Roth happens to be right on this issue doesn't outweigh the rest of what she says - and if you have not had the "pleasure" of hearing one of her shows, go read up on her a bit.
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06-02-2008 02:36 PM
#9
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Administrator
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
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06-02-2008 03:07 PM
#10
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Certified Level One
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Point completely taken - and I agree with the logic, particularly "But someone did, and the articles were related to hobby rocketry."
I just reserve the right to cringe when the author of an article is bat poop loco!
(the earlier post wasn't meant to be taken as a "Linking us to her will be the end of rocketry as we know it(tm)". Rereading it now with the assistance of coffee I can see how it could come across as that though.)
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06-02-2008 03:11 PM
#11
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Administrator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3189
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
I cringe more often than many because I see so many really bat poop loco authors in the course of a week, so I can relate to what you are saying. On first blush, I know it can appear that there wasn't much thought that went into the republication of these articles, but most people prefer to be informed, so there they are.
Americans have become so accustom to the soundbite they don't often dig beneath the surface to see if there is more. Consequently, we have to stay on our toes. I didn't take your post wrong, I just didn't want anyone else to.
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06-02-2008 03:31 PM
#12
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Certified Level One
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: I know it can appear that there wasn't much thought that went into the republication of these articles, but most people prefer to be informed, so there they are.
Actually I read it the first time, noticed her name and thought "Huh. She's right for once".
I'm all for your posting/linking the articles, I'm just a little leery of the way the rocketry community as a whole tends to latch onto any positive press without looking at the source.
I'm sort of curious about the more insane of the articles you read in a week. I find the stuff very facinating honestly - seeing how other peoples minds work. Do you also do this with other websites? I just can't imagine there are THAT many folks out there with rockets as the subject matter unless the news cycle heads that way for a moment as it did last week. |
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06-02-2008 04:15 PM
#13
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If pigs had fins...
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2779
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: Actually I read it the first time, noticed her name and thought "Huh. She's right for once".
You summed up my reaction as well. I was surprised - she's a bit nutty sounding on a lot of topics but occasionally hits one pretty good. |
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06-02-2008 04:48 PM
#14
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Rana sapiens
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2815
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Which raises the question:
Can anyone tell me the name of a popular radio host/editorialist who isn't whacko?
Calm, cogent analysis with accurate historical context and expert sources--that is what us old geezers were taught was good journalism--bores the hell out of most Americans. Its not even yellow these days--more bilious....
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06-02-2008 04:52 PM
#15
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Administrator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3189
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: I'm sort of curious about the more insane of the articles you read in a week. I find the stuff very facinating honestly - seeing how other peoples minds work. Do you also do this with other websites? I just can't imagine there are THAT many folks out there with rockets as the subject matter unless the news cycle heads that way for a moment as it did last week. It ebbs and flows, flowing freely when a big ticket topic comes up like this one. I have numerous alerts set to trigger emails, and most of them get sent right into the crapper. |
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06-02-2008 05:16 PM
#16
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Certified Level One
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Doc - they don't exist. Best method is to find 2 centrist with a slight lean people who are back to back on the radio IMO.
Dave Ross and Dori Monson out of Seattle (710 KIRO) are great for that, but they tend to be a bit local for most out of market people. The days when one leans out to the left the other leans out to the right, and the next day they drift back. I just wish management there had not fired Ron Reagan.
I can't think of a single person that gets their own show (radio/tv) who is an actual journalist. If you want news or journalism, go to the BBC.
Darrell - makes sense. I forgot the mistake I made setting up an alert like that once. Took me days to clean out my inbox.
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06-02-2008 05:39 PM
#17
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Rana sapiens
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2815
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Yea, I have about given up. Still some decent monthlies in the states, everything else has been swallowed up by the big fish, which affords a very narrow perspective, be it left or right or both.
Back to this incident, it just boils my blood that when it comes to a real potential threat, our paternalistic gov't so often gags the media, all the while hyping non-existent or grossly exaggerated crap/propoganda that better serves policy objectives.
Can the average american be trusted with the truth? Not according to Uncle Sam. Sure there's a threat to the beleagured airline industry, but if there is a risk, I wanna be able to vote with my feet--either choosing to ignore it or let it control me by hiding in my house. In any event, I'd be demanding answers to the tough questions. Not this pretend nothing happened/head in the sand until we have another disaster...  |
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06-02-2008 06:14 PM
#18
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Freeform rockets advocate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1108
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote:
Can the average american be trusted with the truth? Not according to Uncle Sam. Sure there's a threat to the beleagured airline industry, but if there is a risk, I wanna be able to vote with my feet--either choosing to ignore it or let it control me by hiding in my house. In any event, I'd be demanding answers to the tough questions. Not this pretend nothing happened/head in the sand until we have another disaster...
Since it is government policy to encourage "demand destruction" to ween us off foreign oil, one would think they would do whatever they need to, to assure the story is published as widely and in as purile a form as possible.
Mission accomplished!
Just Jerry |
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06-02-2008 09:31 PM
#19
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Rana sapiens
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2815
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Are you being facetious--I see no evidence but to keep us as dependent as possible. If it were the case, then you'd be right re the headlines.....
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06-02-2008 11:16 PM
#20
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Freeform rockets advocate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1108
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: Are you being facetious--I see no evidence but to keep us as dependent as possible. If it were the case, then you'd be right re the headlines.....
This is not an economics blog, but by crushing the dollar into oblivian, we are "monitizing the deficit", and "emphasizing exports (read killing Chinese imports)", oil is denominated in dollars so EVERY OTHER COUNTRY is now paying triple for oil JUST LIKE US, but in their case GOVERNMENTS are paying $3.30 per gallon for it and selling it to peasants for $0.32 per gallon. 
Yes it is intentional.
Just Jerry |
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06-04-2008 11:29 AM
#21
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Certifiable
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 58
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
The reports on this incident say that Continental Flight 1544 was 11 miles east of Bush Intercontinental Airport at an altitude of 5,000 feet. Scaling the Google map puts the aircraft very nearly over some portion of Lake Houston. I guess some rocketeer must have been launching models from a boat?
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06-04-2008 12:26 PM
#22
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If pigs had fins...
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2779
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: The reports on this incident say that Continental Flight 1544 was 11 miles east of Bush Intercontinental Airport at an altitude of 5,000 feet. Scaling the Google map puts the aircraft very nearly over some portion of Lake Houston. I guess some rocketeer must have been launching models from a boat?
The reports also state the object was seen at a distance of 2 miles initially. There's a lot of misinformation and inaccurate data... |
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06-04-2008 01:00 PM
#23
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Administrator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3189
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: There's a lot of misinformation and inaccurate data... and then ... silence ... |
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06-04-2008 01:18 PM
#24
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Certifiable
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 58
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: and then ... silence ...
Maybe McCain and Obama will break this silence at their "town hall meeting"? |
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06-04-2008 05:29 PM
#25
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Rana sapiens
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2815
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Who is that is trying to blame fireworks? Anyone know?
http://www.thetechherald.c...-enthusiast-model-rocket
This was in the comments below the article:
Quote:
'After arriving safely in Cleveland, the captain of the Continental flight
told investigators what he saw was two miles from the plane and appeared
to be the vapor trail of a rocket. The co-pilot told agents that what he
saw was a more dense black smoke coming from the object.'
It's likely they say a vapor trail (from another plane, not a rocket) high in the air. The difference in apparent color could be caused
by the sun being behind the trail when viewed by the co-pilot.
Any published reports saying the pilots saw a rocket shooting past the cockpit window are totally incorrect. Report this comment
page: 1
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06-06-2008 09:23 PM
#26
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Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 223
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Just a stupid question.
Do commercial airports have any kind of flare system to show disabled inbound planes the end of the runway, or where the lineup for the runway can be found when flying blind?
Perhaps a homeland security secret? Then who would know?
Chuck
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06-07-2008 11:52 PM
#27
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Low Power Flyer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
As I see it, blaiming the incident on a "model rocket" serves two functions:
1. Create legislation to ban/outlaw model rocketry. This way BATFE wins the lawsuits. They would become a moot point.
2. Reassure John Q. Public that he's safe flying commercially. Thus ensuring that the airlines have passengers, and won't have to go out of business.
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06-09-2008 09:45 AM
#28
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NAR Level 1
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 68
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: As I see it, blaiming the incident on a "model rocket" serves two functions:
1. Create legislation to ban/outlaw model rocketry. This way BATFE wins the lawsuits. They would become a moot point.
2. Reassure John Q. Public that he's safe flying commercially. Thus ensuring that the airlines have passengers, and won't have to go out of business.
I'd think it's more 2 than 1. BATFE doesn't want to ban/outlaw model rocketry. They want to regulate it for income. |
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06-09-2008 07:21 PM
#29
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Rana sapiens
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2815
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
I vote for 2. Don't want folks to panic...
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06-09-2008 09:35 PM
#30
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If pigs had fins...
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2779
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: I'd think it's more 2 than 1. BATFE doesn't want to ban/outlaw model rocketry. They want to regulate it for income.
???? I'm not sure how the ATF could generate as much money as they spend given the paltry 100.00 fee for a three year license. Think about the costs that they incur there's the paperwork, the on site interview and then 1/year follow up magazine inspections. In addition they have to follow up with dealers and manufacturers. |
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06-10-2008 12:48 AM
#31
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Freeform rockets advocate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1108
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: ???? I'm not sure how the ATF could generate as much money as they spend given the paltry 100.00 fee for a three year license. Think about the costs that they incur there's the paperwork, the on site interview and then 1/year follow up magazine inspections. In addition they have to follow up with dealers and manufacturers.
The disconnect is they charge a "token" fee but seek budget amounts that take into account the "oversight, expertise and response" they assert they offer. If you ever read the Waco incident report you will immediately realize that "benefit" is grossly negative. Then you read the judge's orders in the NAR case and your realize nothing has changed.
The budget justification is "presumed" not overseen, justified, or in any way analyzed.
The presumption is in the legislation (the most misguided legislation ever proffered, and I have seen plenty).
Just Jerry |
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06-10-2008 09:09 AM
#32
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If pigs had fins...
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2779
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: The disconnect is they charge a "token" fee but seek budget amounts that take into account the "oversight, expertise and response" they assert they offer. If you ever read the Waco incident report you will immediately realize that "benefit" is grossly negative. Then you read the judge's orders in the NAR case and your realize nothing has changed.
The budget justification is "presumed" not overseen, justified, or in any way analyzed.
The presumption is in the legislation (the most misguided legislation ever proffered, and I have seen plenty).
Just Jerry
Ok - I can buy this. It increases the perception for demand for their services and justifies their budget. That may be true - I know in corporate world this type of budget manipulation happens all the time. |
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06-10-2008 09:32 AM
#33
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NAR Level 1
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 68
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Re: Why all the secrecy about flight 1544?
Quote: Ok - I can buy this. It increases the perception for demand for their services and justifies their budget. That may be true - I know in corporate world this type of budget manipulation happens all the time.
Precisely. |
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