Just Jerry

For years I have liked his product line, approached him on wholesale prices on stuff and been blown out.

He has a high cost basis for this industry.

When he cannot sell to an unsophisticated buyer with unrealistic expectations, I will buy him out. On terms that work 2 ways.

Hello? If he sells to me the "move" will be less than 100 miles. At $8 per gallon that still works.

Just Jerry

Just Jerry

Secondary note. Global implications. BATFE changed regulations (illegally) 10-06 which officially killed consumer HPR.

Just Jerry

H_rocket

And I was going to spend three days of HPR at NERRF this week...

denverdoc

Heres to your sentiment, Al, that the demise of HPR might be wildly exaggerated.....

However it does seem like things have gone distinctly south--first Hawk Mtn, now Public Enemy. Personally, I think the gas prices are more of a threat to our hobby than the damn BATFE.

Just Jerry

IF you believe HPR needs a BATFE magazine at the site because propellant can "explode", you are happy indeed. IF you believe propellant cannot explode (confused by decades of actual experience), a magazine is an illegal requirement, and that children have been using APCP for several decades without incident, you are a bit taken aback.

Just Jerry

Don't let the constitution annoy you.

H_rocket

Salient points, however they do not add up to the death of consumer HPR. It's a whole lot more difficult, however we are clever folks and find ways to adapt while we work to improve things.

Ya gotta have faith...

Johnnie

The product line, for the most part, is great! I have only owned two of Public Enemy's kits, both of them 4" Extreme Performers. I hope that this line can stay the test of time with whom ever accquires it.

Here is a web site that at one time was nicely devoted to the Public Enemy product line...sadly it has not seen updated in years...

http://thrust66.com/

Johnnie

shockwaveriderz

maybe he's selling his HPR business because his Air Gun business is making him more money; oh nevermind, thats what he said in the article.

terry dean

ddmobley

Yes, we are clever, but we are *in* the hobby. It's the thousands who don't even try because on intial blush, the hobby appears over-regulated.

deandome

??? What's the story w/Hawk Mountain?? I haven't read anything here or anywhere else. Their site's up 'n running...no announcements or anything....and of course, they're still sponsoring RP.

ddmobley

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/2250/28/

Just Jerry

NEWS

The hobby is in a depression because in 10-06 BATFE unilaterally and without science or motivating event declared all APCP over 62.5g an "explosive". Before that the limit was the mass of the earth (or more).

Note to rocket scientists, APCP is "non-detonable", not an explosive, by practical test, by Bureau of Explosives Test, by Delaware State Police test.

BATFE made up a test with known defects to declare it an explosive, and when called on it said, oops we made a mistake and will correct it.

YEARS and counting, BTW they have been fighting the claim in court the whole time. Gee I wonder how motivated they are to "change their mistake"?

My Name is Jerry

denverdoc

Jerry,

I'm not happy at all with the overregulation of the hobby and have a deep and abiding respect and love for the constitution. I have yet to get a LEUP as I see it as compliance with an illegal seizure of regulatory authority, though am indebted to those who do. I do believe we can weather this storm. Is the hobby sufering? No doubt. Without big motors at the B&M's and a plethora of rules and regs to navigate, it isn't easy to get into the hobby. And on new blood all pursuits ultimately depend.

But in the 1/2 full perspective, we currently enjoy an unprecedented number and variety of motors to choose from. There are at least 3 general forums that seem to be thriving, and an untold number of smaller more specialized forums doing well. The more ambitious projects, partcularly L3 and above seem to becoming more sophisticated and stronger all the time, e.g. Mike Whorley's, Jim Jarvis's, etc. The avionics are ever improving. Adrian's Parrot line is smaller and more capable than all but a handful. Big Red Bee has some great GPS units, and I haven't even started on hybrids or the ever increasing sophistication and success seen in the EX camp.

So yea, we have taken a hit in terms of overall numbers, but I still think its a bit premature to pronounce the hobby dead or even terminally ill.

Just Jerry

On the other hand as compared to peak oil (rockets), the current industry, such as it is, is about 2-5% of what it used to be (note many vendor losses).

Furthermore it is about 0.5% of what it was scheduled to be assuming the 1991 growth rate was simply maintained by a guy named Jerry.

Some losses can not be recovered from, or successes easily duplicated after a period of hardship imposed by a powerful coalition of government and "industry leader" sources. Some times you cannot go back.

But from now forward, we can insist on our rights and PUNISH HARD those who violate them, in the "family" or not, and really put outreach as a stated goal.

I said so.

Make it so.

Jerry

denverdoc

I'm glad for your perspective--my most recent reincarnation began about 4 to 5 years ago. The one before that spanned maybe 1982-1989 and was modroc competiotion oriented.

It does raise the question--how big do we want the hobby? Personally, I'm not sure I would want things 20 times as big. An LDRS with ten thousand attendees. I'll pass, thank you.

There are a couple of practical reasons for my feeling this way. I remember most of all my negative feelings following the Damon buyout of Estes-how everything became plastic, almost preassembled, everything blister packed, or having to buy in sets of three when you really wanted one.... Centuri and others seem to have disappeared about the same time, but honestly can't recall and I know I was still buying those weird diameter FSI motors 10 or 15years later.

So I guess at some level I worry that if there was a far bigger market, the ma and pa vendors would be "taken out" by some big player interested only in making $$ and with no genuine regard for the educational and social aspects of the hobby. Then I worry like hunters do, that if there are too many yahoos out there, sooner or later something tragic would happen, that might affect our ability to get insurance, or what have you.

Maybe its unAmerican to say so, but bigger aint always better. We need to be self-sustaining and have enuf of a player pool to keep things interesting. Not sure what numbers that be.

ddmobley

There's a lot of truth in this. Under the current scenario, only the serious stick around. I don't know if I'd want to see a 10K LDRS either. It would be nice to see some larger regional events peppered around the country, but there are enough people at the national events already.

Just Jerry

What would be nice is regulatory reduction, positive public awareness, LEADING to organic growth, from interested persons.

Just Jerry

H_rocket

Here is the thing that I fail to understand. Who enters the hobby as an HPR flier? We have lots of new members (we pick 1-2 up every launch). As they express interest in the stuff that is now regulated, we put our collective heads together and look for ways to fly. It can be done. Yeah, what Jerry properly espouses would be best, however when given lemons, make lemonade.

Just Jerry

The lemons we have were personally delivered by Estes, Tripoli, NAR, Ross Dunton, Gary Rosenfield, Charles E Rogers, Bruce Kelly and later even "the motor vendors".

I can see your point "now", but remember that before "now" things were very substantially different and the changes were done INTENTIONALLY with nothing short of loud, repetitious, and accurate feedback, ALL fully on the record on rmr.

There is a reason why TRA lackies "wrecked" rmr. It is a cover-up.

Jerry

They got theirs. That is to say "access" free of common folk.
I for one endorse "common folk". Obviously that was a mistake.

Just Jerry

Based on a decade of Lucerne experience, someone shows up with their Estes rocket and is welcomed with open arms and handed an H motor.

They buy an H rocket, build it and fly it with a SU H.

They are now HPR.

Jerry

http://v-serv.com/usr/images/TRA012.card.640.jpg

I caused many people to get these in ONE DAY.

denverdoc

Yea! While it is great and proper to see folks work up the ranks...ime some adults, who may or may not have flown Estes as a kid, see the big stuff and want to start there. With some guidance it is doable, even via the internet--Nick and his Little Dog comes to mind.

SpartaChris

Two of my closest friends had absolutely NO interest in low or mid power rocketry. It took a LOT of convincing to get them to come to a large regional launch, and when they saw the M's go off, were immediately hooked. They've been flying high power for almost 3 years now.

denverdoc

Yea, for me it was an Ex launch at an undisclosed location several years back. Watching research J's from 30' or so was a rush I won't ever forget.

Just Jerry

That's a feature, not a bug. Makes your unit hard.

Fly one over your head lying in a foxhole and FEEL the sonic boom.

Just Jerry