GAITHERSBURG, Maryland USA — Here is your opportunity to be part of the most technically demanding challenge ever attempted at an LDRS. ROCKETS Magazine is opening the doors to our fellow rocket vendors to come on board with Mach Madness. We are looking for gift certificates to be redeemed by the winners after the contest, since it will run through the Research Launch on Monday and Tuesday. The more vendors that participate, the more prizes and combination of prizes we will have to give to the participants who are offering up their rockets and their reputation to see who really is the "Baddest in the Land".

ROCKETS Magazine will in turn promote your company in all future Mach Madness promotions, in print, video, at the launch and in the upcoming cover to cover issue of LDRS 27 in ROCKETS Magazine. This is the time to become part of the event that will have necks craning, eyes squinting and jaws dropping.

Send us your intention to participate, company logo and what your gift certificate represents to: This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it You can offer specific prizes from your inventory or a dollar amount and let the winner of your certificate choose, it's up to you. The first promotional advertisement will be in the June issue of ROCKETS Magazine, so don't delay. Show your current and future clients that you support their efforts on the big stage at LDRS 27.

The goals in the Mach Madness contest are to build and fly the rocket that ascends at the highest speed while staying under the waiver and to HAVE FUN! The contest gives all participating rocketeers the chance to put your "Motor Where Your Mouth Is" and show us "Who Is the Baddest in the Land."  Prizes will be awarded from the generous donations by our vendors. The person who flies the fastest rocket in the Mach Madness contest will be called "The Fastest at LDRS 27." He or she will have the bragging rights to being "The Baddest in the Land."

Mach Madness is a skill event that will test the fliers ability to master all the elements necessary to survive high-speed flights. Mach Madness will put you on center stage, where your abilities to design, simulate, build, fly, and recover your project will be demonstrated at the biggest launch of the year.

LDRS 27 Mach Madness Rules

Upon satisfying the TRA and LDRS 27 launch requirements, the rules for Mach Madness are as follows:

• The rocket must stay under your waiver.
• The rocket must ascend intact.
• The judges must be able to read the data from the altimeter.
• The rocket can be damaged on landing, get caught in power lines, trees, etc.
• There must be a recording altimeter on board.
• The judges will accept data downloaded from commercially available data-logging altimeters including:  ARTS I, (Data Analyzer V1.5), ARTS II (Data Analyzer V1.6.1), Altacc (Flight Analyzer V1.04), G-Wiz (Fight Viewer V2.8.1), RDAS (V 3.6) and Perfectflite (MiniALT/WD) (See note 3 below.)
• The altimeter data are downloaded into the judges on-site laptop after the flight.
• You have until the end of Mach Madness to find and download your altimeter.
• The highest recorded velocity within the waiver will determine the winner.
• Judges decisions are final.

Registration will occur at the Rockets Magazine tent daily during the launch. Get your rocket RSOd, and step over and sign up for Mach Madness.

Downloading of flight data will occur at the Rockets Magazine tent at times posted at the launch.

Mach Madness Flights will be clearly indicated on the flight cards.

Some of TRA and LDRS 27 launch requirements to keep in mind:

1. All flights must conform to the TRA Safety Code, including the following:

Metal in High Power Rocket Construction
RSO Guidelines
High Power Safety Code 

2. Procedures for flights over 25,000 feet:

If you wish to make a flight to over 25,000 feet, you must obtain prior approval from the Board of Directors. The application must be submitted at least 30 days prior to the planned flight, to allow time to review your application.

25K Application (RTF)
25K Application (PDF)

The LDRS 27 RSOs and Organizing Committee(s) will have the final say whether your project makes it to the pad or not. Once you have complied with the above-stated rules, you can register for Mach Madness.

3. Note regarding Perfectflite and other altimeters:

The data-logging PerfectFlite altimeter records at 20 samples per second. Differencing the data using a 20-iteration lag has been tested as a way to determine maximum velocity. The judges will use this method to determine maximum velocity of your rocket if you use this altimeter.

There are other commercially available data-logging altimeters. The judges do not own and are not familiar with them. The judges have access to those listed in the rules above. If you have another commercially available data-logging altimeter that reports maximum velocity in the software (examples are PICO and Control) and you can load the analysis software onto the judges laptop on the field, it may be allowed. Judges decisions are final.

07-11-2008 12:20 AM  #1
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in So if you fly a minimum CDa aluminum vehicle and the sheer speed melts off the aluminum fins with titanium leading edges, can we presume aluminum was indeed necessary as a structural part? Just Jerry "Otherwise no." P.S. That's a lot of friggin' rules which, admit it, at minimum, keeps me far away. I invite the top 3 winners to a fly-off at "my" launch. Oh, I will be entering. GFL.

07-11-2008 12:47 AM  #2
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 3723	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Oh, I will be entering. GFL. TLA's make me bonkers.

07-11-2008 06:39 AM  #3
DAllen Certified Level Two   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 60	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: So if you fly a minimum CDa aluminum vehicle and the sheer speed melts off the aluminum fins with titanium leading edges, can we presume aluminum was indeed necessary as a structural part? Just Jerry "Otherwise no." P.S. That's a lot of friggin' rules which, admit it, at minimum, keeps me far away. I invite the top 3 winners to a fly-off at "my" launch. Oh, I will be entering. GFL. Jerry...only you...Every one of those rules are needed. In fact, I don't think there are enough. I would like to see a statement about recovery under parachute or streamer or something. All we see is something about "can be damaged [upon landing>." So if the rocket comes in ballistic it's okay so long as we can retrieve the data? Or are there rules within TRA that prevent people from intentionally doing silly things like that? Jerry, if they would've added a few more rules would it not only keep you away but also keep you from commenting? Hmmm...Not likely. Oh well, I can dream. On topic...I have a 16" spool and it will rule...lol. -DAllen

07-11-2008 07:28 AM  #4
H_rocket Village Idiot   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 635	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: On topic...I have a 16" spool and it will rule...lol. I would pay to see a 16" spool break mach.

07-11-2008 12:02 PM  #5
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4157	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: I would pay to see a 16" spool break mach. No doubt!!!

07-11-2008 04:29 PM  #6
DAllen Certified Level Two   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 60	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: I would pay to see a 16" spool break mach. I never said it was going to break mach. It's kinda like the guy on the Price is Right that bids a dollar on a $500 item and wins because everyone else went over. Imagine a spool winning because everyone else shredded. Let's see...the odds of that happening are...um...A snow sphere's chance on the wrong side of the river Styx? Or something like that... Like you, I would definitely pay to see a 16" spool break mach. -DAllen

07-11-2008 04:32 PM  #7
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 3723	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: I never said it was going to break mach. It's kinda like the guy on the Price is Right that bids a dollar on a $500 item and wins because everyone else went over. Imagine a spool winning because everyone else shredded. Let's see...the odds of that happening are...um...A snow sphere's chance on the wrong side of the river Styx? Or something like that... Like you, I would definitely pay to see a 16" spool break mach. -DAllen From a distance...

07-11-2008 06:15 PM  #8
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in one rule that seems ambiguous is number 2--i had assumed staing is permitted, almost compulsory, but UV's take on it was maybe staging is disallowed?? Hope not, cuz staging is the great equalizer between guys with the fence post motor cases and the rest of us commercial wonkers.

07-11-2008 11:32 PM  #9
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Jerry...only you...Every one of those rules are needed. In fact, I don't think there are enough. Jerry, if they would've added a few more rules would it not only keep you away but also keep you from commenting? -DAllen I believe you believe that. In the mean time I challenged the "winers" to a flyoff without the arbitrary restrictions where speed is the real deal. Silence was golden in Nazi Germany, behind the iron curtain, in the Soviet Union and in red China. Oh, and inside your mind and living room. Just Jerry

07-12-2008 11:01 AM  #10
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Which arbitrary restrictions are you speaking of?; really, Jerry, in this case it looks like there are 3 rules. You got x days to fly and find it, you gotta have some means of proving you went that fast, and the judges need access to the raw data and whose decisions are final. (oh and keep it under waiver, don't use Aluminum--LDRS wide restriction that can't be helped). I am bugged by the ascend intact--i was hoping to semi-shred mine on the way up-less fin drag that way if they deflagrate. Seems like one of the least restrictive set of contest rules I've seen. So curious as to your objections in this case.

07-12-2008 11:16 AM  #11
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in One rule explicitly states you must be a Tripoli member, which in my case is impossible. I was removed for three years in 1992. Each attempt since then to renew has been attached to a request to admit to TRA's false claim I had never filed for FAA waivers. They could not prove it, the FAA told them the claim was overtly false, their own President and accuser was the very person who witnessed each and every waiver at Lucerne, the very "report" attached to the accusation in 3-92 making the claim itself had a valid waiver issued to me ATTACHED TO IT. No way in hell am I going to help them cover up their overt frauds. On the other hand the RSO guidelines page says: "Flight Safety Review Safety First – Flyer – By asking to see a current membership card: Verify that the individual flying the rocket is a current member in good standing of Tripoli Rocketry Association or the National Association or Rocketry. " Which indicates an NAR membership would be fine. NAR welcomes me. BUT these rules are to be interpreted as the more restrictive rule superceeds. "RSO Guidelines Preface The following RSO Guidelines are not meant to add to, subtract from, or supercede any of the Tripoli Safety Codes. This document is meant only to be a guide to help persons in the position of Range Safety Officer to perform a thorough inspection and promote safe practices." Based on my actual past experience on several occasions, what that means to me is after I spend the money for travel, lodging, registration fees, food, donations, and shmoozing, I will STILL simply be asked to leave. Um, no. I was even asked to leave LDRS-Lucerne after I expressly asked Bruce Kelly, at the BOD meeting he was holding, if I was welcome to attend the range. He said he had no objection. With his express participation the next day, the ROC leaders asked me to leave under threat of force and police involvement. Um, that seems just a tad disingenuous to me. Just Jerry

07-12-2008 11:37 AM  #12
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in I got it now. Well certainly no shortage of invites from folk here last time it came up, and several offers to try to run interference for you in the bid to attend. IIRC you were planning on doing Haram 50 instead--you still planning on making that? Just 2 weeks away or so.

07-12-2008 11:51 AM  #13
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: I got it now. Well certainly no shortage of invites from folk here last time it came up, and several offers to try to run interference for you in the bid to attend. At least three of those folks were unilaterally approached by a TRA board member and expressly told to ask me to leave on arrival. The inviters had the courtesy to warn me and save me the hassle. TRA BOD reads the message boards. At this point, I am just happy OTHER PEOPLE are having fun flying TRA/HPR rockets. Albiet, fewer every year. I am a bit busy with ever so slightly larger rockets now, and I regularly invite more motivated rocketeers to help and participate. I don't need the drama from small minds. Just Jerry

07-12-2008 02:14 PM  #14
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Got cross-threaded there, Jerry. I meant very recently as in the last few months for this years LDRS.

07-12-2008 03:23 PM  #15
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Got cross-threaded there, Jerry. I meant very recently as in the last few months for this years LDRS. Let's just put it this way. My son goes to the local Tripoli launches pretty regularly. He supports the vendors, provides technical assistance for users, provides quite a few free parts, and does everything short of flying his own motors there. He has a budget to buy AT motors which is about all you can get there. Every launch he asks some club board member if his dad can bring him next time. Every launch the answer is no. When that changes, and stays changed for 3-4 launches, I might consider attending TRA events, or even traveling to others. But so long as that ethic and behavior exists, I see no reason to support it. In fact, I see no reason why anybody reading these words should support any TRA event so long as that is going on at ANY TRA event. I certainly NEVER behaved that way at my own launches, even when some attendees were stealing from me, or suing me to cover up those thefts, or trying to steal the launch itself. My ethics were above theirs. They were welcome to fly rockets. I am not. This is NOT 20 years ago. This is THIS MONTH. RIGHT NOW. TODAY. Just Jerry

07-12-2008 03:50 PM  #16
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Well I am genuinely sorry to hear that--after all you've done for the hobby. And while the high ground might be to boycott TRA events until everyone is OK with your attendance, many of will be dead before the last of the hard feelings die. Thats a tough sword to fall on. For better or worse. And the unfortunate thing is so much of it is seond hand feelings from people who are ignorant of the past in all respects, and have had no contact with you first hand--the reputation preceding you prejudice which IME is the worst form and hardest to overcome. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that you're welcome to fly in many quarters--or at least several judging from the last thread wherein this was discussed. I think it would be helpful if you thought again about meeting folks halfway on this. But you're obviously very prideful and your own free agent.

07-12-2008 04:09 PM  #17
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Well I am genuinely sorry to hear that--after all you've done for the hobby. And while the high ground might be to boycott TRA events until everyone is OK with your attendance, many of will be dead before the last of the hard feelings die. Thats a tough sword to fall on. For better or worse. And the unfortunate thing is so much of it is seond hand feelings from people who are ignorant of the past in all respects, and have had no contact with you first hand--the reputation preceding you prejudice which IME is the worst form and hardest to overcome. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that you're welcome to fly in many quarters--or at least several judging from the last thread wherein this was discussed. I think it would be helpful if you thought again about meeting folks halfway on this. But you're obviously very prideful and your own free agent. Getting to know me and the facts is the very thing these TRA clubs, leaders, and nationals fear most. Ironically while they have successfully maintained this effort for 15-20 years, the attendees have been leaving - in droves - around them. I used to be the very one bring new blood to the launches and Tripoli. Those days are gone. Baby with the bathwater. Darwinism works perfectly. Just Jerry

07-12-2008 04:37 PM  #18
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in My first rocket was an Estes Alpha with a B6-4. The first rocket flown at LDRS-1 was a U.S. Rockets Hi-Test 2420 (Ace parts of course) with a D12. I look forward to flying those again. I look forward to enjoying seeing TRA BOD members literally begging me to attend a launch to do so, AFTER apologizing for falsely claiming I never filed FAA waivers, AND apologizing for decertifying U.S. Rockets motors with no legal basis to do so. I don't want them to throw anybody under the bus. That will not help me. I didn't do it either. I want them to do the right thing and I want it to be big-a$$ public. Nothing more, nothing less. Just Jerry

07-12-2008 08:30 PM  #19
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Well sounds like an impasse. But glad you can contribute here. I have learned a lot, including some of the history of HPR which I was completely ignorant of except the early exploits at Lucerne. Maybe thats why I had an open mind. Everyone is being so secretive about this event. I plan of flying a 2 atage rocket to 18k feet. It will go fast but no idea how fast.

07-13-2008 01:45 PM  #20
DAllen Certified Level Two   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 60	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: I don't want them to throw anybody under the bus. Just like you didn't throw me under the bus on post #9? Quote: Silence was golden in Nazi Germany, behind the iron curtain, in the Soviet Union and in red China. Oh, and inside your mind and living room. You are obviously holding a very large grudge from whatever it was that happened in 1992 which is SIXTEEN YEARS AGO. Don't tell me you're not. Just look at the posts in this thread. They're huge. Instead of wasting time posting gigantic dissertations here why not let go of your bitterness and do something constructive for the hobby? Speaking of which, I have a rocket to finish I am going to fly with my daughter so I am out of here. -DAllen

07-13-2008 02:11 PM  #21
CJK Certified Level One   Joined: May 2008 Posts: 18	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: You are obviously holding a very large grudge from whatever it was that happened in 1992 which is SIXTEEN YEARS AGO. Don't tell me you're not. Just look at the posts in this thread. They're huge. Instead of wasting time posting gigantic dissertations here why not let go of your bitterness and do something constructive for the hobby? Speaking of which, I have a rocket to finish I am going to fly with my daughter so I am out of here. Hear hear. Speaking as someone with no axe to grind in whatever happened between Jerry and TRA two decades ago, his repeated rehashing of that ancient history is tiresome and after a while, comes across as nothing but whining. Jerry, if you're reading this, why don't you just give it a rest? It can't be healthy to want to hold on to all the bitterness and anger you obviously still feel. And though there may be some on this forum who enjoy hearing your side of the story over and over (and over) as you hijack every thread you participate in, I'd bet most of us newcomers would rather read something more constructive and relevant. -- Chris

07-13-2008 02:29 PM  #22
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in I was responding to an inquiry. I understand that selfish consumers are merely annoyed by the noise, which is an interference with their unbridled entertainment. I also understand addressing issues of fraud, inequity, bad rules, bad managers, over-regulation is of central import to manufacturers and vendors, which, frankly are hyper-critical to your "unbridled entertainment". If these subjects do not interest you, ignore them. The thread will die. If you have real value to add, post it. If you ask someone to shut up because they annoy you and you cannot help but post your disdain they were so bold as to speak out, expect them to respond, calmly and rationally that you are some form of information control freak, ala red China. Expect it. Being told that, is not being thrown under the bus. Turning in TRA leaders for financial misappropriation, or lying to federal investigators, to the authorities would be what I call "throwing them under the bus". Quite a different scope of response I would say. Just Jerry

07-13-2008 03:28 PM  #23
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4157	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Perhaps Jerry should repost the story about his son and how he has requested that his father be allowed at local launches TODAY and still being told no. Everyone wants to rag on Jerry because of things that happened in the past. DAllen, this didn't happen 16 years ago, it happened last month.

07-13-2008 04:28 PM  #24
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Perhaps Jerry should repost the story about his son and how he has requested that his father be allowed at local launches TODAY and still being told no. Everyone wants to rag on Jerry because of things that happened in the past. DAllen, this didn't happen 16 years ago, it happened last month. And several times a year for YEARS. Ongoing. And at more than one regional TRA launch. I am not even allowed to WATCH a launch that is POSTED as open to the PUBLIC and the LOCALS. Saying so is not unreasonable. Certainly not as unreasonable as the behavior that is OFFICIAL LOCAL CLUB AND NATIONAL CLUB POLICY. There. I have said it. Who wants to talk about Mach strategies now? But they are also limited to motors not improperly decertified, which would WIN the contest! Just Jerry cite: http://www.rocketryplanet....ad.php?p=92286#post92286 It was occurring at the very time and on the very day I posted that. I was hoping that would set aside the time-shift excuse entirely.

07-14-2008 10:55 AM  #25
PJStein Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Jerry, A few years ago, I checked into what you would have to do to rejoin TRA and get your motors certified. The requirements were not that onerous and no one said that you were banned forever. You are welcome to fly at our club but you must be either a member of NAR or TRA to fly certified or be a TRA member to fly at an EX launch. One last thing, if you come out east with something to fly, I would be willing to team with you however, I would want to make sure that we are with regulatory compliance. Phil Stein Quote: Let's just put it this way. My son goes to the local Tripoli launches pretty regularly. He supports the vendors, provides technical assistance for users, provides quite a few free parts, and does everything short of flying his own motors there. He has a budget to buy AT motors which is about all you can get there. Every launch he asks some club board member if his dad can bring him next time. Every launch the answer is no. When that changes, and stays changed for 3-4 launches, I might consider attending TRA events, or even traveling to others. But so long as that ethic and behavior exists, I see no reason to support it. In fact, I see no reason why anybody reading these words should support any TRA event so long as that is going on at ANY TRA event. I certainly NEVER behaved that way at my own launches, even when some attendees were stealing from me, or suing me to cover up those thefts, or trying to steal the launch itself. My ethics were above theirs. They were welcome to fly rockets. I am not. This is NOT 20 years ago. This is THIS MONTH. RIGHT NOW. TODAY. Just Jerry

07-14-2008 11:08 AM  #26
denverdoc Hall Monitor   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3077	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in If this is true, Jerry, give up the martyrdom and move on. There is still much to be done!

07-14-2008 11:41 AM  #27
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4157	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Wouldn't it be hard to join TRA and move on if he can't even attend the local launches? Seems an impasse to me.

07-14-2008 11:52 AM  #28
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Wouldn't it be hard to join TRA and move on if he can't even attend the local launches? Seems an impasse to me. Or join TRA at all. I checked RECENTLY and my membership status is still "denied". I still have a couple of friends on the board. If I were ever going to be offered to have my membership renewed, they would have forwarded it. When I was ejected the Rogers letter stated attached is a refund check for your membership. The check was not attached and I had a habbit of prepaying a year or two since rocket sales are so seasonal. So if they were serious they should simply apply the membership time they owe me, about a year and a half or so, and just reinstate it unilaterally right now. Or not. Just Jerry cite: http://v-serv.com/usr/images/TRA012.card.640.jpg

07-14-2008 01:08 PM  #29
PJStein Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in First, I'll say that there are are some people that seem to hate Jerry over some real or percieved action many years ago. Do you think that those people are stupid enough to do any more than blow a bunch of hot air? Who in their right mind is going to do that? I believe that even if someone were that stupid, there are enough people there with enough sense to stop anyone contemplating such action. BTW Jerry - stay out of Texas. Phil Stein Quote: Wouldn't it be hard to join TRA and move on if he can't even attend the local launches? Seems an impasse to me.

07-14-2008 01:14 PM  #30
PJStein Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in We all know that nothing is just going to happen automatically and that nothing is going to be offered to you. You have to make a request. If you did send them a copy of your check along with a request for them to refund unused portion of your dues, I can't imagine them not doing so. As far as I know, noone in TRA wants to steal from you. As far as being denied, you were told what you need to do to be readmitted. Once you do that, it shouldn't be a problem. Phil Stein Quote: Or join TRA at all. I checked RECENTLY and my membership status is still "denied". I still have a couple of friends on the board. If I were ever going to be offered to have my membership renewed, they would have forwarded it. When I was ejected the Rogers letter stated attached is a refund check for your membership. The check was not attached and I had a habbit of prepaying a year or two since rocket sales are so seasonal. So if they were serious they should simply apply the membership time they owe me, about a year and a half or so, and just reinstate it unilaterally right now. Or not. Just Jerry cite: http://v-serv.com/usr/images/TRA012.card.640.jpg

07-14-2008 01:22 PM  #31
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1320	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: We all know that nothing is just going to happen automatically and that nothing is going to be offered to you. You have to make a request. If you did send them a copy of your check along with a request for them to refund unused portion of your dues, I can't imagine them not doing so. As far as I know, noone in TRA wants to steal from you. As far as being denied, you were told what you need to do to be readmitted. Once you do that, it shouldn't be a problem. Phil Stein request for membership - attendance at a board meeting request for refund - written notice and numerous internet interactions as well can't imagine - don't have to imagine, the outcome has happened as far as I know - head in sand told what you need - admit a falsehood to justify their illegal act and make witness against myself opposite the finding of an FAA inquiry. Hmmm. Nope. Phil, throughout the years you have done nothing but gainsaying, piling on, making negative inferences, and generally standing up for demonstrated injustice. I have no respect for you and I suspect no amount of future behavior will ever change that for me. Go away. Jerry I am entitled to my opinion and I tend to form it carefully and with supporting evidence.

07-14-2008 01:56 PM  #32
PJStein Certified Level One   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in You going on forums and bitching accomplishes nothing. I suggest that you proactively try to get your complaints resolved or stop bitching about a hearing in 2003 over something that happened in the early 1990's. By piling on, you are refering to me agreeing with people that do not share your opinion on some matters? I'm done with this and yes, it still seems like you are a hopeless case. Phil Stein Quote: request for membership - attendance at a board meeting request for refund - written notice and numerous internet interactions as well can't imagine - don't have to imagine, the outcome has happened as far as I know - head in sand told what you need - admit a falsehood to justify their illegal act and make witness against myself opposite the finding of an FAA inquiry. Hmmm. Nope. Phil, throughout the years you have done nothing but gainsaying, piling on, making negative inferences, and generally standing up for demonstrated injustice. I have no respect for you and I suspect no amount of future behavior will ever change that for me. Go away. Jerry I am entitled to my opinion and I tend to form it carefully and with supporting evidence.

07-14-2008 08:53 PM  #33
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 3723	Re: ROCKETS Magazine opens Mach Madness to invite vendors in Quote: Phil, throughout the years you have done nothing but gainsaying, piling on, making negative inferences, and generally standing up for demonstrated injustice. I have no respect for you and I suspect no amount of future behavior will ever change that for me. Go away. Jerry - here you're as guilty as anyone. Take this case without resorting to past behavior and character attack. You are better than this. Phil may be worth the time and effort - perhaps a new leaf will sprout if you take the high road consistently.

07-14-2008 09:11 PM