IT'S BEEN ALMOST A YEAR since Tripoli Rocketry Association president Ken Good found himself at the Charlotte Douglas International Airport in Charlotte, North Carolina, awaiting a plane, when his cell phone rang. Good was en route to Washington, D.C. to meet up with National Association of Rocketry president Mark Bundick.

The plan was that the following day they would both proceed into the courtroom of United States District Court Judge Reggie B. Walton, federal judge for the District of Columbia. The date was July 26, 2007, and the pair were expecting to hear the final judgment that Friday in the landmark hobby rocketry lawsuit the two organizations brought against the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) over eight years ago.

On the phone was Marty Malsch, lead counsel for both rocketry organizations in the ongoing legal battle, who was calling to let Good know the status hearing scheduled for that Friday, the 27th, had been canceled. No additional information was available, and the court promised to call Malsch back when rescheduling information was available. To date, that return call has never come.

With Good and Bundick already en route, the duo met with Malsch and ended up conducting a strategy meeting over dinner, discussing what the hearing cancellation could possibly mean. It was also a time to review other thoughts, covering what steps the two organizations may take, depending on the outcome of the case. Malsch really didn't have a definitive answer as to why the judge had canceled the status hearing, and the judge's office wasn't providing any additional information. Where in the world is Reginald Walton?

Born in Donora, Pennsylvania on February 8, 1949, Judge Walton began his education by attending West Virginia State College in 1971, where he received his Bachelor of Arts degree, and then later received his Juris Doctorate degree from The American University, Washington College of Law in 1974.

From August of that year until February of 1976, Judge Walton served as a staff attorney in the Defender Association of Philadelphia, before leaving to serve as Assistant United States Attorney from March of 1976 until June of 1980 in the Office of the United States Attorney in Washington, D.C. Judge Walton served as the Executive Assistant United States Attorney from June of 1980 until July of 1981, when Judge Walton was appointed to the Superior Court bench, having been appointed to that position by Presidents Ronald Reagan in 1981 and again by George H. W. Bush in 1991.

Judge Walton assumed his position as a United States District Court Judge for the District of Columbia on October 29, 2001, after being nominated by President George W. Bush and later confirmed by the United States Senate. He also serves today as a United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Judge, where he has another six years to serve on his appointment. In addition, Judge Walton serves on numerous other committees or appointments with regard to the federal judiciary system.

One gets the distinct impression that Judge Walton is indeed a very busy man, and I am sure that prior to 2000, Judge Walton had never heard of the Tripoli Rocketry Association. In fact, he had probably never heard of the National Association of Rocketry, either. But he soon learned who both of them were, as on February 11, 2000, the two organizations filed suit in federal court against the ATF, challenging their oversight of ammonium perchlorate composite propellant, or APCP for short.

For those who are not familiar with the case, or joined the hobby after it began, the basics of the lawsuit were distilled down to four counts:

1. That ATF exceeded its statutory authority by regulating rocket motors with greater than 62.5 grams of APCP, as APCP is not "a chemical compound, mixture or device whose primary or common purpose is to function by explosion."
2. That ATF violated federal law by not providing the public with reasonable notice of, or an opportunity to comment on, their inclusion of APCP on the official list of explosive materials, a decision that was labeled "arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, and/or not in accordance with law" in the law suit.
3. That ATF regulation of the purchase and storage of rocket motors violates federal law that stipulates that rocket motors are "Propellant Actuated Devices" (PADs).
4. That ATF violated federal law by not providing the public with reasonable notice of, or an opportunity to comment on, their decision to regulate individuals that purchase and store rockets that use more than 62.5 grams of APCP as a fuel source, a decision that was also labeled "arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, and/or not in accordance with law."
   
   (If you would like to browse the court documents from the case, you can find them in the Newsdesk area under the Law Library link.)

Slated to become the longest running case on Judge Walton's court calendar, he probably thought he had officially put the affair to bed when he rendered his initial decision on the 19th of March, 2004. In that ruling, without stating that APCP was or was not a deflagrating explosive, Judge Walton ruled that ATF was operating within their scope to list APCP as such on the official list of explosives materials.

Another finding that Judge Walton handed down was that ATF's pronouncement that sport rocket motors are not PADs was invalid because it was made without compliance to notice and comment rule making procedures (NPRMs), without ruling on whether or not rocket motors were PADs. The two other counts were deferred pending the outcome of previously initiated notice and comment rulemaking procedures.

This outcome basically granted ATF an initial victory, albeit a temporary one, pending the filing of an appeal, and hopefully a reversal of Judge Walton's decision, which is just what Tripoli and NAR did. On December 17, 2004, Judge Walton awarded two motions, one of which was the green light they needed to proceed with their appeal.

Filed on August 5, 2005, a request for appeal was submitted to the United States Court of Appeals, and on February 10, 2006, the Court of Appeals reversed the earlier decision that had given ATF their ability to arbitrarily designate materials that "deflagrate" without any standard to determine what that means. According to the appeals court mandate, "for the agency to so designate a particular material, APCP, it must establish that it is indeed a deflagrating substance. In this case, the agency has articulated no standard whatsoever for determining when a material deflagrates" (emphasis in original) Tripoli Rocketry Association, Inc. and National Association of Rocketry v. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 437 F.3dAppeals At 75 (D.C. Cir. 2006). This document, issued by the appeals court, remanded the case back to Judge Walton and ultimately, the ATF.

A little over a month later, Judge Walton, following the appeals court mandate, remanded the case back to the ATF to determine if APCP deflagrated through independent testing. Six months later, ATF returned to file their test results: not surprisingly, the ATF maintained that APCP is an explosive.

At a status conference in October of 2006, the ATF unloaded 2,100+ pages of documentation on their APCP testing procedure — a little something for Judge Walton's casual reading. By comparison, War and Peace, claimed by some to be the world's largest book, is only around 1,400 pages. The judge, in response, ordered an official schedule to allow for the timely review of the documentation, to give the TRA and NAR counsel time to file complaints, responses and motions, which they did at the end of January 2007.

Finally, in April of that year, both sides filed their final submissions and awaited Judge Walton's instruction. The meeting in D.C. in July of last year was the last scheduled status conference of the original scheduling order, thought to be the end of the road for this near-decade-long lawsuit. Instead, as it turned out, it was the beginning of The Big Wait.

Attorney Malsch couldn't say for sure why Judge Walton canceled the status conference, although one theory is that the judge realized this hearing, a date on which he had previously expressed that he would be able to render the court's opinion on all of the motions for summary judgment, was not required. This would signal that he had enough documentation to rule from the bench at some point in the near future. It was speculated at the time that this could be a positive sign. What it means today is anyone's guess.

In an announcement last summer, TRA president Good said, "I know we were all waiting in great anticipation of an outcome on July 27 or shortly thereafter, and believe me, Mark Bundick and I share everyone's frustration that this has not yet occurred." Yet today, almost a year later, we still are waiting and the frustration continues to accumulate.

Where in the world is Judge Reggie B. Walton? No one in the hobby knows. Just like no one knows why the judge still hasn't issued a ruling, but the latest speculation that the judge was awaiting the November presidential elections seems to be the only one with any validity, or at least believability, to it. But once November comes and goes and we still have no ruling, well, what then? Your guess is as good as mine.

So what do we do? What can we do? Well, I'll tell you what I am going to do — I am going to build and launch some rockets. Whatever it takes, I am going to enjoy my hobby and some how, some way, I will do just that. I have always enjoyed the designing and building portion of the hobby as much as or more that the actual launching part, so by concentrating on that, I am going to raise my building quotient.

I promise that if I build it, I'll find a way to fly it. But what about you? What are you going to do? I'd like to hear your ideas, and maybe by sharing them, others may find a solution to their problems in yours.

07-19-2008 05:29 PM  #1
Johnnie Certified TRA Level III   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 214	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: But what about you? What are you going to do? I'd like to hear your ideas, and maybe by sharing them, others may find a solution to their problems in yours. I have tried many options; Pyrodex, Candy Motors, Hybrids etc...as it turns out, there seems to be no way out from under the governmental thumb with these options... So I fly under the LEUP of those 'holders' in attendance. Like you Darrell, I'll continue to design, build, mix and test while waiting on the outcome of the courts decision. The nice thing about all of this, is I have learned a lot by adapting to the available flying options. I enjoy hybrids, I enjoy KNCP (no longer doing Candy motors though), and I have learned to stay clear of Pyrodex (some how I just never grasped the concept of how to properly make good use of it). The only thing that comes close to the aggrevation of the lawsuit right now, is high gas prices, and going to away launches... That said, my arsenal continues to grow. Johnnie

07-19-2008 05:58 PM  #2
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? The conclusion and the first comment is "off-topic". The question, what am I going to do", has a valid answer. Friend of the court brief, thus FORCING a review. Filing summarizing the "findings" of ATF not having jurisdiction over these materials and making arbitrary and capricious acts, and seeking "relief". Outside parties with more balls and less patience than the weenies at NAR. Remember NAR has assumed the role of strategic leader FOR YOU without your appointing them. The LAW allows any affected party to join a suit and make additional claims and pleadings. Have balls? Have a round tuit? Jerry

07-19-2008 06:16 PM  #3
Johnnie Certified TRA Level III   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 214	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: The conclusion and the first comment is "off-topic". The question, what am I going to do", has a valid answer. Friend of the court brief, thus FORCING a review. Filing summarizing the "findings" of ATF not having jurisdiction over these materials and making arbitrary and capricious acts, and seeking "relief". Outside parties with more balls and less patience than the weenies at NAR. Remember NAR has assumed the role of strategic leader FOR YOU without your appointing them. The LAW allows any affected party to join a suit and make additional claims and pleadings. Have balls? Have a round tuit? Jerry Merely building and finding a way to fly them Jerry...I grind no axes. Johnnie

07-19-2008 06:19 PM  #4
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Then why are you posting to a thread about a lawsuit, which is the ultimate grinding of an axe, especially since it is AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT? Jerry

07-19-2008 06:24 PM  #5
Johnnie Certified TRA Level III   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 214	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Then why are you posting to a thread about a lawsuit, which is the ultimate grinding of an axe, especially since it is AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT? Jerry huh? I missed something here...it is not my thread(?)

07-19-2008 07:23 PM  #6
H_rocket Certified Level Three   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 499	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Somehow I thought the thread was about the lawsuit a included a question to the effect of "In the absence of a decision, what are you doing to continue." I believe Johnnie answered that question - He is going to contiue adapting to the situation as best he can. Same thing I am going to do. I am in this as my hobby, not my avocation. I will find work arounds to the excessive and unwarranted regulation until such time as they are either relieved or made permanent. In the former, I will be glad for all, in the latter I will decide if the burdens outweigh the enjoyment. I have no desire nor do I have the free time to get tangled up in the lawsuit as an active participant beyond contributing generously to the legal fund. From an editorial point, the situation is unacceptable, however there are work-arounds for the time being. They are a royal pain in the ass, and I would rather not deal with them, however I can for the duration. I plan to build and fly the rockets. I had a ball today and flew nothing bigger than a G80. I like bigger, yet this was fun too. I've bought hybrids, and while waiting for my storage permit to be approved, I will fly using the help of friends who have completed that step. Like Darrell, I do believe the lack of action by Judge Walton speaks poorly for him.

07-19-2008 10:05 PM  #7
QuickBurst Certified Level Three TRA   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 53	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? I for one will keep flying. I have the Permit and everything else every other bureaucrat demands. I am very much involved with our club and research motors. I will continue.

07-19-2008 10:37 PM  #8
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: I am in this as my hobby, not my avocation. I will find work arounds to the excessive and unwarranted regulation until such time as they are either relieved or made permanent. Is a workaround a non-compliance or a substantial reduction in size levels, or is it a vast compromise? Just asking. As an avocation person. I seem to be biased. Jerry

07-19-2008 11:17 PM  #9
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2797	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? I too like David have a permit. I fly all kinds of rockets and enjoy them all ( have yet to fly hybrids). I flew today using FAR 101 and we had no flights larger than a G80 - still sweet. We had two fly into 10' high corn contrary to the wind - and we got both back. I got to fly with my rocket buddies and we had three new potential members show up to see what we were up to. This was a Good day!

07-19-2008 11:25 PM  #10
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Everything's relative. But then again pigs actually don't have fins. Just literal and experienced Jerry (I have seen 4000-12000 people at a rocket launch, how about you?) P.S. I suppose that makes me an a-hole.

07-19-2008 11:43 PM  #11
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2797	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Everything's relative. But then again pigs actually don't have fins. Just literal and experienced Jerry (I have seen 4000-12000 people at a rocket launch, how about you?) P.S. I suppose that makes me an a-hole. Jerry - size doesn't matter didn't your friends tell you? We had a total of 12 adults and 4 children attend this launch. That is far smaller than we normally have but not bad for less than 24 hours notice of the event. Frankly I would HATE to see 4000-12000 people at a rocket launch. But that's just me. I thought you had seen at least 100,000 people at one of those half-time launches. But more to the point of the thread. While I would hate to see that many people at a launch, it would be nice if someone were to launch rockets at a few sporting events and on national television and in front of those large crowds mention that the hobby was unfairly regulated and that a court case was pending and in limbo. Maybe not the best idea - but it would be satisfying for a few minutes at least.

07-19-2008 11:45 PM  #12
sunward New Member   Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? A judge needs to write the decision out and show how the decision was arrived at, in detail. This take time. The judge also has other cases in his docket. I have yet to see anyone compile a list of cases this judge is working on. One year is not a long time. In response to the question of what you do, it is very simply - you wait. Why go to the judge and tell him he is slow and to hurry things up?

07-20-2008 12:09 AM  #13
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: ...it would be nice if someone were to launch rockets at a few sporting events and on national television and in front of those large crowds mention that the hobby was unfairly regulated Simply involving the public at large makes it organically obvious rocketry is overregulated as it is KIDS that bring the parents into it. Jerry

07-20-2008 01:13 AM  #14
SpartaChris Certified Certifiable   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 127	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? What frightens me the most about having to wait as long as we have for a ruling is the idea that politics might be playing a role in the decision of this case. To me it seems like it should have been a cut and dry decision- They failed to prove their case, we were able to prove ours, the ruling should go in our favor. But, that's in a perfect world, so there ya go I guess. As far as what I'm personally going to do, my answer is I don't know. I suppose that depends on how much worse, if they do get worse, the regulations get.

07-20-2008 01:24 AM  #15
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: What frightens me the most about having to wait as long as we have for a ruling is the idea that politics mightbe playing a role in the decision of this case. To me it seems like it should have been a cut and dry decision- They failed to prove their case, we were able to prove ours, the ruling should go in our favor. But, that's in a perfect world, so there ya go I guess. Exactly correct.

07-20-2008 08:43 AM  #16
Chuck_Rudy Banned   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 223	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? I've posted similar before, here's some local history. A law suit begun in the time of WW II (I can't find the exact start date for some reason today) was finally awarded in 1977 when the gubbment knew they were dead wrong. I guess they like to spank those who dare to correct them. _____________________________ http://www.gyroplanepassion.com/Harold_Pitcairn.html "On March 5, 1966 the Trial Examiner in a legal case for government liable, came to a 232 page decision that concluded, “Harold Pitcairn had been the key person in the development of the rotary wing industry in the United States, a true pioneer.” Damages were awarded in the amount of 31.4 million dollars on 12 July, 1977 and affirmed by the Supreme Court on 23 July, 1977 including an additional award of $600,000 for delay of payment for a total of $32,048,738. nfortunately Pitcairn would never see the legal justification of his contributions, July 23, 1960, following a family event for Harold’s older brother, Raymond’s 75th birthday, tragedy befell the great pioneer. " __________________________ "Pitcairn instituted a monumental law suit which went all the way to the Supreme Court. After 28 years of litigation the court ruled that the rotarywing patents of the Autogiro Company of America had been infringed and Harold F. Pitcairn was granted the victory" __________________________ Remember they are playing with the house's money, they've got forever. Chuck

07-20-2008 08:56 AM  #17
BobbyB Hangar 11   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 14	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Does the Honorable Reginald Walton have a mailing address? Maybe we can send an polite inquiry as to the status of the case. With respect to " what to do ", Simple... FLY... My concern is more with the future of the hobby, the overbearing regulation has forced a significant decline in the hobby. Couple this with 4.00 + a gallon for fuel and a weak economy and further decline is inevitable. I guess my biggest issue wth the entire situation is the goverment, instead of using NAR and TRA organizations to help keep America safe, they alienated both to an adversarial point. Even if for one millisecond the ATF is correct [ and they are not > If they are charged with keeping America safe , enlisting the help of NAR & TRA would have gone much further in that effort than the path they chose. Please do not misunderstand my statement, rockets / propellant are no more nor no less dangerous than hundreds of other items available at your local Walmart or Home depot. Exactly why rocketry was selected for "hobbicide" by the ATF is a mystery to me.

07-20-2008 09:34 AM  #18
H_rocket Certified Level Three   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 499	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Is a workaround a non-compliance or a substantial reduction in size levels, or is it a vast compromise? eeeny-meeeny-miney-mo I am an engineer. I find solutions to problems. Sometimes they ain't pretty, but they often work. "Vast"?

07-20-2008 11:22 AM  #19
ken487 New Member   Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? For all it's worth, this is my opinion, just my take on all this. I believe that the judge doesn't want to rule on this case and is putting it off as long as he can or he is forced to rule on it by actions that the ATF takes against someone. If the ATF was right and they did prove it to the judge in their papers, he would have ruled already. But since he hasn't, I belive that he has found them to be wrong and we are right and did prove it, so he is letting sit till he is forced by some other court case to do so. He doesn't want to rule against a government agency, wouldn't look good for him. Just my take on all this. Yes, I might be wrong, it is just what I see. What am I doing during all this? Well I am flying rockets, R/C planes, kites, and anything else that goes up. Ken

07-20-2008 11:39 AM  #20
jderimig Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 79	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Does the Honorable Reginald Walton have a mailing address? Maybe we can send an polite inquiry as to the status of the case. http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/rbw-general-info.html

07-20-2008 11:49 AM  #21
QuickBurst Certified Level Three TRA   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 53	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Here's what I'm seeing. I haven't seen a significant change in attendance at our launches. Our club has several Permit holders so most anyone can get whatever motor they are qualified to use, permits are not an issue. I don't see as many big motors flights on commercial days. I used to see an M or two, but now its rare. We don't even set the M pads up unless someone requests it. Most of the big motor flights today are K and L flights. K's being the largest part of it, L's are few and far between. I hear people complaining about fuel prices more than over regulation where it used to be the opposite. I think "disposable income" is now alloted for higher fuel prices and everything that goes with it. It's a big deal, everything from postage to home energy costs are riding the higher fuel prices. Not meaning to hijack the thread, but there are other problems out there as big as regulation. I do wish the good judge would "get off the pot". One thing I'm seeing for sure, research motors are getting more popular. Maybe the driver is cost?; since most newbies see "roll your own" as a big dollar saver, and it can be, after you have absorbed the initial investment.

07-20-2008 11:58 AM  #22
kgholloway APCP-4E   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 13	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: I believe that the judge doesn't want to rule on this case and is putting it off as long as he can or he is forced to rule on it by actions that the ATF takes against someone. To quote William Gladstone "Justice delayed is justice denied". Ken

07-20-2008 12:43 PM  #23
DAllen Certified Level Two   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 40	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? I am starting to be far more worried about all the whining than the government regs in this hobby. -DAllen

07-20-2008 12:50 PM  #24
SpartaChris Certified Certifiable   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 127	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: He doesn't want to rule against a government agency, wouldn't look good for him. Ken You mean it wouldn't look good for them. If he were to rule against the ATF, he would be letting everyone know that the government has over stepped it's bounds. This could ultimately open the eyes of John Q. Public and make them realize that our government is slowly stripping us of our rights to make decisions for ourselves.

07-20-2008 01:14 PM  #25
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2797	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: I hear people complaining about fuel prices more than over regulation where it used to be the opposite. I think "disposable income" is now alloted for higher fuel prices and everything that goes with it. It's a big deal, everything from postage to home energy costs are riding the higher fuel prices. I would expect that if the regulations were less onerous the costs would drop.

07-20-2008 02:12 PM  #26
shockwaveriderz Model Rocket Historian   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 36	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: I am starting to be far more worried about all the whining than the government regs in this hobby. -DAllen well we are a nation of whiners ! hahahah terry dean

07-20-2008 02:34 PM  #27
shockwaveriderz Model Rocket Historian   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 36	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Even once Judge Walton rules, whichever way, will just start the next round of court drama. Does anybody seriously think, the BATFE will not appeal if they lose? Same goes for the NAR/TRA side(assuming they can still afford it). It's not over till the fat lady sings, and she's not about to sing anytime soon. I'm not holding my breath on this one. as far as costs, the upfront costs to get a LEUP/Type 4 magazine are one time costs, other than renewal of the LEUP. There are other cost factors,as David pointed out that are more important to consider. I personally see $5 gas on the near horizon and it will continue to rise. The cost to heat and cool your house will be going up a great deal. The costs of energy will play a much higher critical role in ALL optional disposable income hobby's and sports. terry dean

07-20-2008 04:50 PM  #28
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 3208	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: as far as costs, the upfront costs to get a LEUP/Type 4 magazine are one time costs, other than renewal of the LEUP. While the cost issue was raised in the lawsuit, it's not even a consideration to me. Cost doesn't even get to enter the equation for a resident of a condo, townhouse, apartment or other multi-family resident or those locales with zero tolerance for "explosives." Those people would pay good money IF THEY COULD to get an explosives permit, yet counsel for the defendant seems to waive that off as "oh, well." There shouldn't be any reason an individual should be unable to enjoy a hobby if they are physically able to but are restricted access because of some regulatory hurdle that is haphazardly applied. It is the equivolent of not allowing one to fly water rockets because of the risk someone could be drowned. There are already laws against using a rocket in a criminal manner, there is no need to criminalize the activity before a crime has even been committed.

07-20-2008 06:29 PM  #29
gregm Spewing negativity!! :)   Joined: May 2007 Posts: 64	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Even once Judge Walton rules, whichever way, will just start the next round of court drama. Does anybody seriously think, the BATFE will not appeal if they lose? Same goes for the NAR/TRA side(assuming they can still afford it). Terry could not be more accurate in stating the most likely reality of the future of this effort. Sadly it has seemed to me that since the very beginning of this far too many people have refused to see the reality of how this would play out. Does anyone really think the ATF is going to simply lay down and go away should the judge decide in favor of the hobby??? Seems to me it is much more likely they will do whatever they want regardless of what Judge Walton, or any other judge for that matter, decides. The situation as a whole completely sucks but there is nothing stopping anyone from enjoying the hobby as they see fit (well except perhaps the price of gas). If you can't get your own permit then work with someone that has one.

07-20-2008 06:52 PM  #30
roadkill Definitely Certifiable...   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 25	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Walter - the friendly NSA wiretap guy who is monitoring my communications says that poor Judge Walton is completely swamped out at the FISA court due to countless Government requests to wiretap us common American citizens....

07-20-2008 08:57 PM  #31
sunward New Member   Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 4	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Does the Honorable Reginald Walton have a mailing address? Maybe we can send an polite inquiry as to the status of the case. ... Not a good idea to say the least. The last thing we need is to have a judge getting a couple hundred letters asking why he is slow. Then it gets in the media. Worse, someone get stupid and writes something stupid or threatening. Might even be considered obstruction of justice. Just wait. That's all.

07-20-2008 11:27 PM  #32
BobbyB Hangar 11   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 14	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Not a good idea to say the least. The last thing we need is to have a judge getting a couple hundred letters asking why he is slow. Then it gets in the media. Worse, someone get stupid and writes something stupid or threatening. Might even be considered obstruction of justice. Just wait. That's all. Mmmmm maybe my English is not up to speed.. I think I said we can send "polite request" for status. REQUEST as in 1...... Also did not recall calling him slow... "polite" request for status. polite request does not mean SLOW , it means it has been 12 months and may we have a statement Re the status of the case. I don't recall asking or even hinting that he should be harrased in any way... Exactly how we got from a "polite request" to "possible obstruction of justice" is well beyond reason.

07-20-2008 11:32 PM  #33
BobbyB Hangar 11   Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 14	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Even once Judge Walton rules, whichever way, will just start the next round of court drama. I could be wrong here but my understanding is this is the end on of the process. ATF wins we are done.. no more appeals... game . set, match.. ATF.... We live or die with the regs.... We win the ATF has no recourse... its OVER.. fat rocket lady singing.... we are flying.... no more ATF regs.... At least until the next alphabet agency tries to kill us off.... Bobby B

07-21-2008 12:25 AM  #34
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1115	Re: Editorial: Where in the world is Reginald Walton? Quote: Seems to me it is much more likely they will do whatever they want regardless of what Judge Walton, or any other judge for that matter, decides. Not only is that true, they have the law on their side. They have presumed expertise that can only be overcome by a boneheaded move like they did in this case. All they have to do next time is not be "quite" as stupid, and they prevail on their own terms. We are scum on their shoes. We are citizens. Just litigous Jerry

07-21-2008 02:40 AM  #35

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