WORLD WIDE WEB — Tripoli president Ken Good announced today the appointment of Tripoli Board of Directors member Erik Gates as the new Tripoli Contest and Records Committee Chair, replacing long-time volunteer Tom Rouse.  Rouse resigned July 14th amid dissention.

Rouse will remain on the committee itself, where he served as the sole member and chair since 2001, to assist Tripoli in determining the best strategy for resolving records applications for altitude attempts in excess of 30,000 feet, the accuracy limit of most barometric altimeters.  The subject was debated heatedly by other high altitude fliers in the wake of Rouse's previous announcement that Curt von Delius' M record attempt had been denied.

In early July, a press release by AeroTech Consumer Rocketry brought Von Delius' outstanding flight performance to the attention of hobby rocketry enthusiasts everywhere.  The flight, which took place at the Mudroc launch on Nevada's Black Rock Desert on June 20th, mated an M1450W together with a light-weight 3.18" carbon-fiber airframe to reach over 40,000 feet, the press release claimed.

The record application was rejected by Rouse because of the use of a barometric altimeter equipped with a Motorola MPX4100A sensor, a unit that is only capable of accurately measuring altitudes below 34,000 feet mean sea level. "As TRA's chair person for contests I have cautioned people over the years regarding use of altimeters that are not capable of operating at the altitudes desired," Rouse said at the time in response to the press release, which critics claim should never have been released until the record was confirmed.

Rouse's public resignation caught many by surprise, including the organization, where the machinations of finding a replacement were in action. Even before Rouse's resignation was published publicly, some of his key critics had already announced to other involved parties that they would be taking Rouse's place as records chair, a seemingly odd position given that Rouse was still seated.

Due to the nature of the task, determining what methods and devices would best suit their needs, a multi-membered committee strategy was decided upon.  Good announced Gate's appointment as interim chairman of the committee today, giving Gates broad power to select a number of Tripoli members to join the committee and allowing him discretion to seat his choices.

07-28-2008 03:03 PM  #1
kjgood15 New Member   Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair A clarification is in order, since the report may be not entirely clear on several points. As stated, Erik Gates is the interim chairmain of TRA Contests and Records. He is not going to be the ongoing chairman. Such a change will be made at a future date, although it is not known at this time when that will be. I am aware that there have been public and private assertions by some individuals about being the successor to Tom Rouse as chair of the committee. The reason why that sounded curious while Tom still was chair is because any such assertions aren't factual. As Tom himself would confirm, he and I have spoken about possible people to chair the committee after him, and these discussions have not landed on any one person at this time. And I have not spoken to anyone, other than Erik, about stepping into this role. While Erik will be naming his committee members as part of the effort he is undertaking, it will be up to the new committee chairperson who will succeed Erik to select as many or as few people (and who they will be) when that person takes the position. Thus, Erik's selected members may be considered iterim members as well - although it is possible some of them may continue on after the next chairperson is named. Ken Good TRA President

07-28-2008 03:37 PM  #2
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2711	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: A clarification is in order, since the report may be not entirely clear on several points. As stated, Erik Gates is the interim chairmain of TRA Contests and Records. He is not going to be the ongoing chairman. Such a change will be made at a future date, although it is not known at this time when that will be. I am aware that there have been public and private assertions by some individuals about being the successor to Tom Rouse as chair of the committee. The reason why that sounded curious while Tom still was chair is because any such assertions aren't factual. As Tom himself would confirm, he and I have spoken about possible people to chair the committee after him, and these discussions have not landed on any one person at this time. And I have not spoken to anyone, other than Erik, about stepping into this role. While Erik will be naming his committee members as part of the effort he is undertaking, it will be up to the new committee chairperson who will succeed Erik to select as many or as few people (and who they will be) when that person takes the position. Thus, Erik's selected members may be considered iterim members as well - although it is possible some of them may continue on after the next chairperson is named. Ken Good TRA President Ken - as an interested bystander (only member of NAR at the moment) is there a reason Erik is only filling this role on an interim basis? Also, with the other committee's is the standard practice to have the chair name their members or is there a lot of variability in the way that the committees are setup and maintained?

07-28-2008 03:45 PM  #3
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1086	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: Ken - as an interested bystander (only member of NAR at the moment) is there a reason Erik is only filling this role on an interim basis? Also, with the other committee's is the standard practice to have the chair name their members or is there a lot of variability in the way that the committees are setup and maintained? I think it is interesting he is making this clarification in public. Usually it is easier to get a volunteer for a short-term position than a long term one. Tom seemed to be in that position from 2001-2008. That's long term. If the next person approaches that it best be someone who is a true believer. It may take a while for that special person to come forward and chat with TRA leadership about it. I wouldn't be surprised to see an announcement after a major TRA launch. Jerry

07-28-2008 04:11 PM  #4
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 3165	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: A clarification is in order, since the report may be not entirely clear on several points. As stated, Erik Gates is the interim chairmain of TRA Contests and Records. He is not going to be the ongoing chairman. Such a change will be made at a future date, although it is not known at this time when that will be. The last sentence in the article states: Quote: Good announced Gate's appointment as interim chairman of the committee today, giving Gates broad power to select a number of Tripoli members to join the committee and allowing him discretion to seat his choices. I don't know how much more plainly it could have been stated that he was the interim selection. Quote: I am aware that there have been public and private assertions by some individuals about being the successor to Tom Rouse as chair of the committee. The reason why that sounded curious while Tom still was chair is because any such assertions aren't factual. So the people who made those ascertations are liars? Equally odd.

07-28-2008 04:42 PM  #5
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1086	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: So the people who made those ascertations are liars? Equally odd. If the President of Tripoli Rocketry Association, Inc. is calling leaders within his own organization liars (or anti-factual ), who are we as outsiders to judge otherwise? Quote: I am aware that there have been public and private assertions by some individuals about being the successor to Tom Rouse as chair of the committee. The reason why that sounded curious while Tom still was chair is because any such assertions aren't factual. Just Jerry

07-28-2008 05:28 PM  #6
kjgood15 New Member   Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: The last sentence in the article states: I don't know how much more plainly it could have been stated that he was the interim selection. So the people who made those ascertations are liars? Equally odd. Darrell: I only suggest, had you asked me up front, that the opening should state that Erik is the interim chairman. That fact comes out last, and I thought could be missed. I am not calling anyone a liar. I can only tell you what I have discussed and not discussed with anyone. There has been no discussion with anyone apart from Tom Rouse, Erik, Darren Wright and me about a chairman for Contest and Records after Tom. It was out of that discussion that I named Erik interim chair. Ken Good

07-28-2008 05:41 PM  #7
kjgood15 New Member   Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: Ken - as an interested bystander (only member of NAR at the moment) is there a reason Erik is only filling this role on an interim basis? Also, with the other committee's is the standard practice to have the chair name their members or is there a lot of variability in the way that the committees are setup and maintained? The TRA Bylaws give the authority to the president to appoint committee chairpersons. They may or may not also appoint members, but it is also stated that the chair may be empowered to appoint members as they see fit. My practice is to have the chairperson appoint members, as this seems the best way to get a team that can work together effectively. This is one reason that I mention that once we move to a new ongoing chairperson, the members Erik appoints may or may not become members of the standing committee. No doubt the new chairperson and I will discuss this, but I prefer to let the chair make the call. There are several reasons I prefer that Erik chairs only on an interim basis. One is that I am not especially keen on TRA Directors chairing committees, if it can be avoided. Why? Well, directors have enough to do without chairing committees. More importantly, I think it is best to afford leadership opportunities to non-director members as much as possible. It is abundantly clear that we have a large talent pool that should not be ignored, and we should make our best use of it. We also have to give folks a shot who may want to move into other leadership roles, like the BoD. This also provides some separation of responsibility that is healthy for the organization. Those are my thoughts. Ken Good

07-28-2008 06:06 PM  #8
UncleVanya If pigs had fins...   Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 2711	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: The TRA Bylaws give the authority to the president to appoint committee chairpersons. They may or may not also appoint members, but it is also stated that the chair may be empowered to appoint members as they see fit. My practice is to have the chairperson appoint members, as this seems the best way to get a team that can work together effectively. This is one reason that I mention that once we move to a new ongoing chairperson, the members Erik appoints may or may not become members of the standing committee. No doubt the new chairperson and I will discuss this, but I prefer to let the chair make the call. There are several reasons I prefer that Erik chairs only on an interim basis. One is that I am not especially keen on TRA Directors chairing committees, if it can be avoided. Why? Well, directors have enough to do without chairing committees. More importantly, I think it is best to afford leadership opportunities to non-director members as much as possible. It is abundantly clear that we have a large talent pool that should not be ignored, and we should make our best use of it. We also have to give folks a shot who may want to move into other leadership roles, like the BoD. This also provides some separation of responsibility that is healthy for the organization. Those are my thoughts. Ken Good Ken - thanks. That was a simple explanation with enough detail to make it clear without delving too far into mundane details. The reasons are also sound and well thought out. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to post here. I suspect that like most in this hobby you have a lot of demands between work, hobby, organization, and family.

07-28-2008 06:09 PM  #9
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 3165	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: I only suggest, had you asked me up front, that the opening should state that Erik is the interim chairman. That fact comes out last, and I thought could be missed. Logic tells me when the title of a news release states that the Tripoli M record had been shattered while the text of the article held the operative word "pending" that it could be measured by the same gauge, so why didn't I receive similar input then? Why now? Are you suggesting that I run every news article that remotely involves the Tripoli Rocketry Association by you in advance? I would think that a volunteer in your position would have more important things to do than parse news reports for a private website.

07-28-2008 10:18 PM  #10
kjgood15 New Member   Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: Logic tells me when the title of a news release states that the Tripoli M record had been shattered while the text of the article held the operative word "pending" that it could be measured by the same gauge, so why didn't I receive similar input then? Why now? Are you suggesting that I run every news article that remotely involves the Tripoli Rocketry Association by you in advance? I would think that a volunteer in your position would have more important things to do than parse news reports for a private website. Darrell: I am not trying to overly critique the story. I am only suggesting when it's a news release based on an interpretation of an official TRA member communication from the president, it may be worth running it past the president to ensure there is agreement on accuracy. As you know, there are also times I will agree to your using the actual announcement verbatim, which cuts through the need to try to restate it. Frankly, I was not parsing RP to find this story or any others... you are correct in your assumption that I don't have abundant time for that. It was reported to me that you had echoed the announcement I made to to TRA prefects earlier today, so I checked it out. I can't control what people announce here of their own volition. The M-motor record announcement you reference did not come from any official TRA source, and as we all know now, was not confirmed by the TRA C&R chairman. So I obviously would not have any expectation that you verify a non-TRA-official news release with the TRA Board or its officers. Ken Good

07-29-2008 02:54 PM  #11
ksaves2 Certified Level Two   Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 25	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Me thinks the bottom line is that the rules governing records, what's required, what's acceptable to use needs to be explored and clarified. I don't think the vast majority in the group are chasing records but I guess the rules surrounding record chasing needs work for those who wish to pursue them. Most of us I don't think have the money to pursue the exotic materials required. Kurt

07-29-2008 10:00 PM  #12
Tom Rouse Certified Level One   Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 14	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Hi Everyone- Life is great. TRA is great. No hidden secrets or conspiracies. I'm fine with all thats happened and totally support the new structure! My life is OVERWHELMED right now with family, work and the ever increasing desire to simplify. And, with the desire within TRA to address the flight computer issues via "certification, "approvals" or what ever is decided upon, made it impossible for me to continue to chair the committee with the upcoming work load. I really don't want to let TRA down, so I did the best thing. Ken and Eric are stand up people who care about TRA and the members. We had many in depth conversations to arrive at the best thing to do for TRA. Thus, this new structure. Please be happy! Its going to be a big chore with lots of pitfalls when the discussions start. The other members on the comittee will have the talent to deal with the issues. Certainly, the integrity of the many wonderful altimeter manufacturers needs to be top priority. TRA should avoid any scenario where flight computer manufacturers end up bickering like the motor manufacturers do. So, "certification" of altimeters needs to be a gentle issue so results don't harm people. Please continue this thread in a positive manner! Cheers Tom

07-29-2008 10:15 PM  #13
Just Jerry Freeform rockets advocate   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 1086	Re: Good seats Erik Gates as TRA Records Committee Chair Quote: TRA should avoid any scenario where flight computer manufacturers end up bickering like the motor manufacturers do. Tom Hmmmmm. Jerry