JEDDO, Michigan USA — The Public Missiles Ltd. Co-Pilot v2.0 altimeter was developed exclusively for PML by Missile Works Corp., and was designed specifically for PML’s CPR3000 Recovery System though it can be used in other applications as well, such as scratch-built deployment systems.

The Co-Pilot v2.0 provides two-stage barometrically-controlled (pressure-sensing) deployment of rocket recovery systems and equipment. Using the Co-Pilot v2.0 altimeter and CPR3000 technology, a small drogue or streamer is deployed at apogee allowing for a fast but controlled descent. At a user-selectable lower altitude, the altimeter fires a second charge to deploy the main chute allowing for a soft landing. This system allows a high-altitude flight to be returned much closer to the launch area than if the main chute were deployed at apogee.

PML's new Co-Pilot v2.0 recovery deployment altimeter.

The Co-Pilot v2.0 is a very rugged and reliable unit in both design and construction. The Co-Pilot v2.0 uses a standard 9 volt alkaline battery, and has clearly-marked terminals for connecting the On/Off switch and the Drogue and Main deployment charges. The Co-Pilot v2.0 is also clearly labeled “Fore” (toward nosecone) and “Aft” (toward fins) to aid in proper mounting.

Physical and Operational Features:

• Same footprint as the original Co-Pilot.
• On-board 9volt battery with heavy-duty mount and lockdown.
• Sea level to 40,000 MSL operational capability
• Works perfectly with any PML CPR-3000 or CPR-MAX kit.
• Clearly marked, dedicated "large-screw" compression terminals for connecting On/Off switch and ejection charges.
• User selectable main chute deployment altitude.
• Works just like original Co-Pilot in default mode, but has MANY new advanced features such as Drogue Delay, Main Delay, multiple Main AGL settings, Mach Inhibit (and more!) that are user-selectable (see link to instructions below for details)

Functional, Diagnostic, and Data Features:

• Interactive menu programming and operation via pushbuttons and LED`s... No dip switches
• All user setpoints are stored in non-volatile EEPROM
• 2 complete setpoint "profiles" are available by the flip of a switch for programming or flight ops
• All flight data is stored in non-volatile EEPROM for post-flight recall, even across power cycles
• Complete on-board diagnostic capability, including battery voltage, current MSL elevation, input and output test modes, and more.
• Post-flight log data such as peak AGL elevation, peak velocity, time to apogee, and more!

Website: http://www.publicmissiles.com/

09-14-2008 04:57 AM  #1
Nesssalco A NOXious fellow   Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 47	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Hmm.. According to the PML website the CoPilot is "functionally the same" as the MissileWorks RRC2 mini, but costs $50 more. I must have missed something. Kevin

09-14-2008 07:44 AM  #2
DAllen Simpleton   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 101	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: Hmm.. According to the PML website the CoPilot is "functionally the same" as the MissileWorks RRC2 mini, but costs $50 more. I must have missed something. Kevin I don't know...Smaller maybe? I would be interested to see what PML says for the operational temperature range. Glancing though the manual I did not see anything in the specs. -DAllen

09-14-2008 12:36 PM  #3
ddmobley Administrator   Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4553	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Can't be smaller, it has a 9V battery on board and the same foot print as the original Co-Pilot. I think what makes this altimeter different from the RRC2 Mini is that this is a bolt-in replacement for the original Co-Pilot, which means it works in existing and new CPR3000 systems.

09-14-2008 03:59 PM  #4
n5wd NAR L1   Joined: May 2007 Posts: 102	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: Hmm.. According to the PML website the CoPilot is "functionally the same" as the MissileWorks RRC2 mini, but costs $50 more. I must have missed something. Kevin Quote: Works just like original Co-Pilot in default mode, but has MANY new advanced features such as Drogue Delay, Main Delay, multiple Main AGL settings, Mach Inhibit (and more!) that are user-selectable Does the RR2 have a couple of different "profiles" that you can program in and select which you fly on-the-fly? My question is why, if it's a baro altimeter, it matters whether you mount one end Fore or Aft, or even mount it sideways?

09-14-2008 04:07 PM  #5
Steve_Shannon Super Moderator   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2434	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: Does the RR2 have a couple of different "profiles" that you can program in and select which you fly on-the-fly? My question is why, if it's a baro altimeter, it matters whether you mount one end Fore or Aft, or even mount it sideways? The RRC2 Mini does have two different profiles, as does the CoPilot v2.0. Neither the original RRC2 nor the original Co-Pilot did. When used with the CPR system, the onboard 9v battery is forced away from the contacts if the altimeter orientation is reversed. The original RRC2 instructions also advised one to orient the altimeter so the battery was above the electronics. I never realized that and used it the other way for years with no problems , but the logic is sound.

09-14-2008 04:28 PM  #6
Steve_Shannon Super Moderator   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2434	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: I don't know...Smaller maybe? I would be interested to see what PML says for the operational temperature range. Glancing though the manual I did not see anything in the specs. -DAllen It's actually the same size as the older CoPilot and has the same spacing for the mounting holes, which makes it easy to mount on the CPR charge holders/mounts. One thing it has which the recent RRC2 Mini does not have is a battery holder. Also, the terminal strips will work well with the CPR. I used the older RRC2 with the CPR, but the location of the terminal strips made it harder to connect electric matches. The side opening terminal strips on the original CoPilot and this new CoPilot make it very easy to hook up the electric matches without having to dismount the altimeter from the urethane mounts that PML designed. So, here is where the CoPilot v2.0 differs from the RRC2 Mini: Drop in fit for use with CPR mounts Integral battery holder side facing terminal strip. Is that worth $50? If you have quite a few rockets with the CPR system, like I do, it may be. Otherwise I am going to have to build some carrier boards or convert all my CPR rockets to something else. The thing is, I like the CPR system for small diameter rockets.

09-17-2008 11:57 PM  #7
aerostadt Certified Level Two   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 71	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter I have bought the Co-Pilot version 2.0 unit and I am learning how to use it now. On my instructions there was found to be an error on p.7 and 13 under the start menu. The flight log should be green (not yellow) and the diagnostics should be yellow (not green). Also, those lights should be slow flashing not solid. As Steve mentioned the mounting holes for the version 2.0 are in the same location as the holes for orignal version. I just checked this fact and it is correct. I did not like the CPR 3000 system so I have used my own ebay in my Eclipse. I do like the PML ejection charge holders and I have been buying and using them all the time. Bob

09-18-2008 12:01 AM  #8
Steve_Shannon Super Moderator   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2434	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: I have bought the Co-Pilot version 2.0 unit and I am learning how to use it now. On my instructions there was found to be an error on p.7 and 13 under the start menu. The flight log should be green (not yellow) and the diagnostics should be yellow (not green). Also, those lights should be slow flashing not solid. As Steve mentioned the mounting holes for the version 2.0 are in the same location as the holes for orignal version. I just checked this fact and it is correct. I did not like the CPR 3000 system so I have used my own ebay in my Eclipse. I do like the PML ejection charge holders and I have been buying and using them all the time. Bob I wouldn't make such an investment in CPRs again either, but I have to crash a few rockets (fewer now) before I no longer use it.

09-18-2008 09:37 AM  #9
aerostadt Certified Level Two   Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 71	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter I am also planning to cut holes in the mounting board for the Co-Pilot version 2.0 so that I can see the "select" and "enter" buttons along with the mode indicator light on the back side of the altimeter, once the unit is mounted. Bob

09-18-2008 11:55 AM  #10
Adrian A Featherweight Altimeters   Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 364	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: The RRC2 Mini does have two different profiles, as does the CoPilot v2.0. Neither the original RRC2 nor the original Co-Pilot did. When used with the CPR system, the onboard 9v battery is forced away from the contacts if the altimeter orientation is reversed. The original RRC2 instructions also advised one to orient the altimeter so the battery was above the electronics. I never realized that and used it the other way for years with no problems , but the logic is sound. Don't forget that if a charge is located above the av-bay, the g-loading opposite from the motor direction will typically be much higher than what you get from the motor. If the charge above the av-bay is the main chute, then no problem if the altimeter resets. But even for an apogee deployment beneath the av-bay, the jerk from the shock cord going tight commonly causes Gs higher than what you get from the motor thrust, and in the opposite direction.

09-18-2008 01:11 PM  #11
jadebox Roger Smith   Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 63	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: Don't forget that if a charge is located above the av-bay, the g-loading opposite from the motor direction will typically be much higher than what you get from the motor. If the charge above the av-bay is the main chute, then no problem if the altimeter resets. But even for an apogee deployment beneath the av-bay, the jerk from the shock cord going tight commonly causes Gs higher than what you get from the motor thrust, and in the opposite direction. But, assuming the altimeter has a capacitor to protect it against momentary power losses, wouldn't the jerks from deployment be of a shorter duration and less likely to reset the altimeter than the force from the longer-duration thrust of the motor? -- Roger

09-18-2008 03:17 PM  #12
Adrian A Featherweight Altimeters   Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 364	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter True, it would depend on the existance and size of a hold-up capacitor.

09-20-2008 12:59 AM  #13
Steve_Shannon Super Moderator   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2434	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: But, assuming the altimeter has a capacitor to protect it against momentary power losses, wouldn't the jerks from deployment be of a shorter duration and less likely to reset the altimeter than the force from the longer-duration thrust of the motor? -- Roger Not with the 9 volt battery holders on the Co-Pilot and RRC2 classic. If it gets yanked away from the motor clip, there is no spring to return it into contact.

09-20-2008 10:12 AM  #14
Sailorbill Certified Level Two   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 91	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: Not with the 9 volt battery holders on the Co-Pilot and RRC2 classic. If it gets yanked away from the motor clip, there is no spring to return it into contact. Steve if it moves the Z bracket battery retainer I am thinking your altimiter is toast anyway.

09-20-2008 05:05 PM  #15
Steve_Shannon Super Moderator   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2434	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Quote: Steve if it moves the Z bracket battery retainer I am thinking your altimiter is toast anyway. Hi Bill, The slot for the screw is slightly oblong and I have seen the bracket slip before one time and the battery broke loose. It's what Stu Barret would call a scar I guess. The rocket was not beeping when I picked it up. All recovery had worked correctly and the rocket was fine; the altimeter has just been disconnected when the main chute opened. That was when I finally got around to following the directions and changing the way I mounted the altimeter.

09-21-2008 09:13 AM  #16
Sailorbill Certified Level Two   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 91	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Steve I did not see the slot in the altimeter. A friend of mine uses the Z brackets all the time, but he doesn't slot the mounting hole.

09-21-2008 11:59 AM  #17
Steve_Shannon Super Moderator   Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2434	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter Maybe Jim doesn't have slots in the new Co-Pilot's battery clamp. I broke my last classic style RRC2 at LDRS, otherwise I would attach a picture. It made it easier to change batteries. Without the slot, I would have had to remove the screw; with the slot I just loosened the screw, slid the clamp back a little, and swiveled it to the side, before pulling loose the battery. There was also a hole on the top of the Z clamp that was not slotted. I don't recall trying, but perhaps by flipping the clamp over, it would work as if not slotted.

09-30-2008 12:55 PM  #18
cluelessrocketguy certified level 3 wannabe   Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 58	Re: Article: PML releases new Co-Pilot Version 2.0 recovery altimeter this is actually a good reliable altimter i have a orginal pml co pilot and the new one and ive never had either one of them fail .