Rocketry Planet

OUTSTANDING !!!

(I just gotta get out and fly something to celebrate.)

Oh snap it is on!

Congrats Gary. 1990 would have been a good start date for this policy, and ever since.

19 years of lost opportunity.

Jerry

http://www.aerotech-rocket...f_communique_4_25_94.pdf

"It is important to note that a former BATF representative who had been a member of the committee for
many years had previously stated that the BATF was not interested in regulating high-power rocketry,"

Poke the monster since it has an answer we already love:

"The committee agreed collectively that all unanswered questions of Federal regulatory authority concerning high-power rocketry should be addressed before continuing with the 1127 code."

Poke it harder:

"According to the NFPA/BATF request concerning clarification of this matter, three letters were mailed: two from a specific manufacturer, and one from the Trade Association."

The monster, forced to respond, helps you out:

"On the last day of the most recent meeting of the Committee of Pyrotechnics, held on 18-20 April 1994 in Salt Lake City, Utah, BATF provided a written response to the manufacturer's letters. This letter indicated, "...products which have been classified by the Department of Transportation (DOT) as a flammable solid 4.1 or as explosives 1.4c, which are within the 62.5 grams limit contained in NFPA 1122 and conform to the requirements of model rocket motors set forth in 16 CFR section 1500.85(a)(8)(ii)...," would meet BATF's requirements for exemption from licensing and explosive storage requirements."

The joy of the manufacturers, dealers and NFPA code writers became immediately apparent:

"The significance of this letter was that all of those rocket motor products which have not been classified as a flammable solid 4.1 or as an explosive 1.4c were subject to the Federal explosives law, including all applicable licensing and storage requirements. It quickly became evident that a literal interpretation of the letter dictated that no existing hobby rocket motor product met all the requirements listed for exemption from the Federal explosives laws. Members of the Rocket Caucus became extremely concerned at this point."

Wanna borrow a shotgun so you can shoot yourself again?

Ignore the good news!

"According to BATF regulations, hobby rocket motors are considered to be "propellant actuated devices", a category of products exempt from the licensing and storage provisions of the Federal explosives laws. No weight limits are currently listed for this exemption in the regulations."

OBTW they PREVIOUSLY officially ruled in writing it was NOT limited to NAR model rocket sizes:

http://v-serv.com/usr/atfproof.htm

"All of the bureaus responded favorable and placed no restrictions on my activity. I did however discover much resentment from Dealers and Manufacturers of these devices, who would only honor Model Rocket Club Associations for purchase requirements. This does leave a gap between the Professionals, current statutes and the technical activities they are persuing."

The monster's fears are disclosed and taken as given, not refuted:

"The BATF representatives at the NFPA meeting stated that the hobby of high-power rocketry has simply been promoted to a degree of public exposure and adverse incident potential where the BATF is now compelled to "draw the line","

Free advise. Stop poking monsters and STFU.

Just Jerry

I ask: What adverse incidents?

cite:

Commentary from rmr:

shockwaveriderz (Terry Dean, model rocket historian):
All I'm going to say on this "NFPA can only pass codes that conform to federal law" is this: In 1968 the NFPA in Code for Model Rocketry 41L created a new 62.5 g limit for model rocket engine size. At this time there was NO federal or state law that said a model rocket engine was restricted in size other than the FAA 4 oz (113 g) limit."

A response:
If what you say is true, then this 62.5 g limit passed by the NFPA was illegal then, as it "created" new federal and state laws that did not previously exist and the NFPA should have passed a 113 g limit instead of a made-up 62.5 g limit.

I read everything you wrote. I do not reply very often. But I have had rocketry as one of my hobby's now for 35 years. Nothing has stopped me yet. I say. that we all be carefull. And use this freedom wisely. And Hell let's just go and have fun. And fly! Enough rehashing the same old story. It was wrong of them. It is over! Lets try and leave this in the past. And Lets all go and fly. And enjoy the hobby we just fought 9+ years for in court. To get rid of dumb un needed regulations. That was just smothering and killing Rocketry. So now lets all Breath And relax and think before we fire are motors and are newly found freedom. And remember Have Fun! Mike.

I couldn't be happier about Judge Walton's surprise ruling against the infamous BATFE. It's a pity the NAR/TRA lead counselor Joseph R. Egan didn't live to see it come to pass. This was more than just a victory for the hobby rocketry community over their number one nemesis. It was a grassroots triumph of citizens over an oppressive government agency.

However, for those of us who are not members of the "fraternity" it changes nothing. I cannot purchase anything larger than a G-80 unless I fork over my treasure and surrender my independence to an intermediary and become "certified". In my area, there is no Tripoli prefecture to join. TNT is gone. The NAR group, DARS, has no usable high power field at the present time. So even if I wanted to pursue the high power thing, there is nothing conveniently available to me.

For me, my only current option to do high power is what used to be known as "amateur rocketry". It does have the advantage of allowing me to fly whenever weather conditions are good regardless of the day of the week and wherever I'm allowed to do so. Thank God for friendly ranchers who enjoy smoke, fire and sound!

You could take a trip and get certified once, it wont expire. Cost about two H motors a year.

Or is the number two nemesis the national rocketry organizations?

If you want a low flyer that will get you certified, cost next to nothing (a couple of bucks or so, mine was 25 cents or so), and WILL be flyable at your local club's smaller field (<1000' flight), you can try this:

http://www.artapplewhite.com/l1.html#bobfinch

Of course it depends on whether a H128's motor casing is not considered a "substantial (metal) part" of the rocket. i.e. As to whether this is classified as a model rocket or not under the current FAA rules. I dunno about this.

That's one of the things about a civilized society - we expect something of value to be given in return or something else of value. I build you a trailer, you give me money. Or, you can barter for something I need... or you can take it from me - those are the only ways I can think of to get the motor without forking over your treasure. As far as certification goes, you'll probably always be able to find someone that'll sell you motors without seeing a certification card, if you try, so I don't really see that as a deal-breaker. Less convenient, yeah, sure. But, where there's a will....



I know that TNT (Tripoli North Texas) is low key, but when I talked with David McGuire a couple of months ago, he seemed to indicate that they're still using the Wills Point field. I don't know how regularly they're using it because of the burn bans, but....

Yeah, it's a hassle not having a local field, but Hearne's not that far away if you really wanna go fly high power stuff, and the Tripoli Houston folks were quite welcoming when I flew with them earlier this year. I'm planning on lugging everything down there again in June - that's just the price we have to pay to fly HP now. Maybe that'll change in the future - certainly, folks are trying to acquire new flying fields closer to the metroplex.




And as long as no one notices, you're good to go. But, I don't think I'd wanna be the one the feds made an example of for scaring some couple in their Bonanza who were flying VFR and just happened to be sharing the same airspace I just launched into. That happens enough even when we get waivers and NOTAMS are published and broadcast. But, that friendly rancher's gonna sell you down the river when the sherrif comes knocking on the door asking for info about the guy firing rockets at planes, or you start a fire that blows over into the neighbor's pasture.