Rocketry Planet

OK, I'm really curious. How did y'all get CA OSFM to approve N motors for use in the state? Was this just slipping one past the goalie, or has there been a rule change? Either way, it's awesome to have the big CTI's available in California... I'm quite excited

http://uscoopers.org/rockets/Pyro3/SiteDimensions.htm

I'm not sure what you're driving at, Jerry. AFAIK, CA regulations say you can't fly a single motor with total impulse more than 10,240 Ns, though you can cluster and/or stage up to 20,480 Ns.

I do not want to get into parsing the different conflicting laws and regulations in CA of which there are many including the limitation of model rockets to 500g liftoff mass, above which you need a permit. That's not how it is enforced, but that is indeed the law.

CTI has CA OSFM approvals for specific products for use by Licensed CA Pyro Op 3 users. That's all you or anybody needs to know.

AT has them too.

BTW Kosdon is don't ask, don't tell.

The reality is, in CA the law is whatever they say it is, this week. This is why having ONE state of 50 with rocket specific laws is a bad idea. They are actually incompetent at it. For the anal among you CA OSFM is leaning toward compliance with NFPA-1127 and the NAR HPR safety code without formally adopting it. Consider it a permanent test period.

Jerry

This is the story that I was told by our compliance department. I hope I explain it correctly here: to posses, transport, carry a reload kit in CA it has to be OSFM approved. So regardless of any other rules to fly it (if they are applicable), our dealers and customers in California need this approval to comply with OSFM requirements for example for use in NV or AZ. Last thing we want is one of our dealers stuck in jail. Much better to have them at the field selling motors. And they are all good friends.

BTW: We have had OSFM approvals for 'N' motors for quite a while. Our 'ancient' N2500 Classic motor was approved in 2006 or so. In previous press releases, like the approvals for the N4100, this was never brought up. All of a sudden a hot topic?

Jeroen

There are three ways to fly non-model rockets in CA.

1. Pyro-Op 3 OSFM approved users discharging OSFM approved HPR motors. A TRA or NAR launch for example.
2. Pyro-Op 2 OSFM approved launch operator discharging HPR and non-HPR motors. No takeaway of non-approved motors to non-approved users.
3. Pyro-Op 1 OSFM approved launch operator discharging arbitrary size and style rockets and those flights logged for OSFM review.

So there are some discontinuities between user permits and goods permits. Also use outside of CA adds yet another layer.

Any size CTI motor, even 18" could be operated at a Pyro-Op 1 launch such as RRS or PRS for example.

How big of a motor can CTI make and can we team up to discharge?

Jerry

From CSFM web page links .. http://weblinks.westlaw.co...&spa=CCR%2D1000&vr=2%2E0

BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 19. PUBLIC SAFETY
DIVISION 1. STATE FIRE MARSHAL
CHAPTER 6. FIREWORKS
ARTICLE 18. EXPERIMENTAL HIGH POWER ROCKETS AND MOTORS
This database is current through 10/9/09 Register 2009, No. 41
§ 1032. Experimental High Power Rocket Motor Standards and Use.


(a) Experimental high power rocket motor design and construction standards shall comply with all of the following:

(1) The maximum total impulse per rocket motor shall not exceed 10,240 Newton-seconds (2302.2 lb.-seconds).


(2) When more than one rocket motor is utilized, the combined total impulse shall not exceed 20,480 Newton-seconds (4604.4 lb.-seconds).

Don't let the words experimental fool you..in CSFM lingo they are refering to certified commerical motors.
According to CSFM each and every person at a launch is required to have a state pyro license too.

Maybe this is the begining of LDRS/ROC trying to get the CSFM to easy their requirements for LDRS next year?

Tony

How will they tackle the Research days of LDRS next year?

How much is a Pyro Op 3 license any how?
Not that I'd actually go for it , just curious.

JD

to obtain a pyro 3..get 5 letters of reference from 5 guys already pyro 3 or above. Take a written test at one of two places in CA..and $50 a year. This allows you to buy, store and fly motors above "G" and up to 10,240 N/s

Tony

Ah, copy that. I didn't know that OSFM rules applied to possession as well as flying. Glad you guys are being on the safe side!



Nah, just never noticed it before. I usually tend to tune out information about commercial motors above M since California's rules (19 CCR § 1032 item (a) among others) are so draconian in regards to them... but this one had the phrase "M Skidmark" in it so I paid attention