Rocketry Planet

I believe the second paragraph covers this issue, but would like to make sure I am reading this correctly.

If I, a L1 NAR member in good standing, fly at a TRA sanctioned event, I am covered by TRA insurance if I fly any motor up to I impulse. Is this correct?

Another question: Could I, a L1 NAR member in good standing, make a NAR L2 certification flight at a TRA event?

Last one: Don't all clubs require a flight card and doesn't that flight card require the NAR or TRA member number for high power flights? If so, I would think whatever number was filled in could be used to determine what coverage was in force. Maybe this is where the administrative hassle would come in.

Depending on the answers to the above questions, I would be concerned that it could strain field owner confidence if you have to explain that on day 1, he is covered by NAR and on day 2 he is covered by TRA. Oh yeah, as long as an e-mail was sent within 24 hours prior to the event and there is no confusion. If not, then he isn't covered at all. At least, this is how I read it.

Hopefully I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, but my initial feeling is a bit shaky.

Sandy.

Not trying to be a fly in the ointment. But buy what I heard TRA/NAR almost NEVER pay out. the expect your personal insurance to pay first. such as Auto, homeowners etc. (can't say thats a fact but I have heard it several times)


Just curious, since we pay for this "insurance" is there somewhere we can see how many claims have been filed and how many have paid out? I am just really curious.

In all the years I have been flying (as TRA and AS NAR) I have never seen anyone that has tried to make a claim. or even need too. I think the worst I saw was a rocket come in ballistic at a vendors table. it damaged the table and one kit. the flyer bought the kit. the vendor tossed the table.. that was the end of it.

This is one of the stupidest decisions I've ever heard. I pay my dues - twice. A portion of that money goes to insurance - twice. And if the club president happens to forget to send an email more than 24 hours in advance, I get no insurance whatsoever - at a function where I should be doubly covered.

The national organizations should be utterly ashamed of themselves for letting the lawyers figure out how not to pay for claims. It's bad enough that the organizations are run by a bunch of little girls that can't figure out how to save us money my combining into a single entity, now they're looking to screw the local clubs made up of grownups who _can_ get along across power levels.

Quite honestly, we've paid twice for insurance - they least they could do for those members who pay double dues and belong to clubs who pay double dues is to agree to a 50/50 split of responsibility with limits not to exceed to lesser of the two coverages.

I will absolutely remember this when it comes time to vote on leadership next year...looks like the current leaders are asleep at the wheel.

I think this is misinformation. NAR insurance is primary insurance. As I understand it, that means it pays out before the individual insurance does.

"Since the NAR first offered insurance in 1993, seven claims for an approximate total of $30,000 have been filed. All of these were for property damage."

http://www.nar.org/insurancefaq.html

I agree that this sounds like CYA lawyer-speak. My reading is it only applies to dual TRA/NAR flyers at events sanctioned by a single club that is affiliated with both TRA and NAR. I'm left wondering why a club would want to be dual TRA/NAR (plenty of reasons why a flyer would be). The way we do it here, as far as I can tell, is that there is a TRA club and a NAR club and we have events sanctioned by one or the other, so this issue doesn't arise. (The NAR club does low/mid-power at our site and runs the low-power at the HPR site, event responsibilities are shared, and I have never heard an argument about the merits of TRA versus NAR even come up.)

I am only a TRA member, so, if I am reading this right, then TRA pays regardless of whether I fly at a TRA, NAR, or TRA/NAR event. This should mean that the 24 hour notification should not apply to me. So if a prefect forgets to give them notification, TRA should still pay for me. Correct?

Incorrect. If you only belong to NAR then NAR insurance covers your liability damages if you are in compliance with the NAR safety code at the TRA launch.

This press release only addresses dual affiliation members flying at dual affiliation clubs.

From what I read: no. As an NAR member (and assuming you're not a member of TRA), you (personally) are covered by NAR insurance any time you're flying and following the NAR Safety Code. It matters not if you're at an NAR club event, a TRA club event, or out in the back 40 by yourself.



Absolutely! I'm an NAR only member and I certified my L2 at the Houston Tripoli #002 launch at Hearne TX.



So, what happens if you forget to put a membership number in the blank, and the check-in doesn't catch it? Would you accept that you would not be covered by ANY insurance in that event? Probably not.

Personally, I think Jordan T's solution would work (that's what many medical insurance companies do, but even with that it's sometimes a hassle to get both companies playing by the rules THEY set up - personal experience in that regard.)

I am supportive of this.

Per Sandy you can certify as either member at either launch but you have to be approved under the rules of the club you are certifying under whatever launch you are at.

Per Stickershock, while other insurance may be asked to pay first, this policy actually who is second to pay. The clubs do have different safety codes and consumer certification rules and different amateur rocket rules and even different certified motor lists that are not 100% compliant with each other. So this issue IF there is a claim is to have clarity so they as clubs are not sucked into some legal dispute with their own insurance carriers.

Per Jordan, this is about who pays first. If somehow there was a claim and the damages exceeded the limits of your policy if any, the first club, say NAR second, I believe if there were "incidents of liability", then say TRA's policy would pay third. This policy is intended to clarify who is second. Simple as that.

Per Mcalpinger, yes NAR coverage is primary, but TRA is not, so having clarity of who is first in line between those two also affects what happens to any third carrier involved.

Per me, there is another issue. What constitutes "sanction" is itself vague. When I hosted NAR contests I would apply for a sanction and receive it or not, just like an FAA waiver. You knew if you were sanctioned or not. National knew if you were sanctioned or not. With sport launches the "sanction" is effectively "self-declared" by the club leader or some operative member of the club. In effect any member at large can impose liability on the national Association without notice or permission of the Association. This new policy at least makes clear there is an affirmative DUTY OF CARE for that self-actuating person to also take care to say who the sanctioning body is for any one day.

If any "EX" at all happens it cannot be NAR so if a club leader both declares NAR and allows EX, that adds another layer of uncovered liability.

Jerry

I disagree. I think your frustration ought to be directed at the insurance industry not at the TRA or NAR. Try buying car insurance from 2 different companies and then file a claim with either one. Once one finds out you have insurance with the other...guess what you have...2 insurance companies whining over who is going to pay for what. What ends up happening is instead of double coverage you get no coverage. Try it sometime - it sucks.

As far as clubs being dual membership I can think of some good reasons. Becoming a NAR section when your club is already a TRA section is simple and inexpensive. Plus there is free exposure in "Sport Rocketry" along with having launches advertised on their web site in the launch calendar section. Also, every time a NAR member renews in the area the club name will appear on the little form listing it as a section that is in the area.

The 24 hour notice is a no-brainer. Just send the email once a year with your launch schedule stating which launch is with which sanctioning body. Typically, our club sends out an email to members anyways with the schedule so just include the NAR and TRA in the "send to:" field of your email program. If your prefect forgets to do something like that then it might be time to elect a new prefect.

-Dave